Question for Scott Peterson and other RCF users

M

Mack

Member
I read some advertising material on the RCF NX12sma that talks about one of its great features being the "complete absence of feedback". Obviously a great thing for a vocal monitor. Of course I would like to think that with the AxeII it rejects sudden unpleasant jolts of harsh random feedback but delivers infinite amounts of sustain and harmonic feedback if you work it. But what's the reality? How does it compare to traditional guitar amps in this regard?

I would really value comments on this subject from seasoned players who are using AxeII/NX12sma rigs. Thanks in advance.

Mack
 
I'd love to know how a coaxial speaker eliminates feedback. TBH, I'd have to see that demonstrated to believe it, or at least very well explained.
 
Sounds like an amp to me. And acts like one. The last practice was my first go with JUST the rcf(10sma in my case) on a stand. No matrix and 1x12 or pair of 1x12. Sounded amazing by itself. About half way through practice I told the guys that that was all I was playing through. They were blown away. On the stand, it is a little brighter, maybe more present than before-so you'll hear your mistakes better. But you here all the other stuff too, so just dont make mistakes.

I got controlled feedback at will, maybe easier, since the speaker is the same level as the guitar now, but unless I was trying to get it-I didnt get it. This is with a les paul, so if you are using a 335 or something-that my be a different story. Overall, I am thrilled with my first frfr outing, and don't expect to go back at this point. Mainly because things like violin just sound much more real with the FRFR stuff-and yeah, I use crap like that in a few tunes.
 
I've been using the NX12SMA for several months worth of gigging now, originally on Merlin17 and Scott Peterson's recommendation. I am very impressed with the speaker, and rate it higher than the Atomic cabinet I was using previously, which is a good speaker in it's own right. I don't use a lot of wailing intentional guitar feedback, but it can be had with some effort. I recall one owner here not using his because it wouldn't feed back at all for him.

I have played pretty loud right in front of it with no issues. Nothing is feedback-proof, I guess, but this speaker is as (or more) well behaved at volume as anything I've tried. The other users have been in the camp longer so they might be able to add some detail for you. I think Scott has used his on occasion for vocals too, so that will be a telling factor.
 
It'll feed back just fine; it's nothing extraordinary one way or the other. If it's loud, it'll feedback.

I know folks read advertising materials and believe them. I'd advise that that they do so with a pinch of salt... I've owned an advertising agency for over 20+ years and though we will *not* lie in anything my company does for clients (they call it 'overpromising') it is rife in the industry.

They are actually talking about gain before feedback, because the NX is very directional. Look at the 'cone' spread; it's 60x60 degrees I think (off the top of my head). That is what the ad materials are talking about. It doesn't 'reject' or somehow 'stop' feedback.
 
Thanks for the comments, guys. I really appreciate it. Scott, I had asked for your input specifically because I have been following your CLR thread as well. Thanks for replying.

To be clear, I didn't take the "no feedback" thing literally, but I speculated that it has, by design, good feedback rejection performance. I'm not really too concerned about whether the RCF rejects unwanted feedback (I'm sure that it does that as well or better than other speakers). My concern is that, all other things being equal, it may be more difficult to get controlled feedback than a traditional guitar rig. The experience of the owner that Rick refers to may have been experiencing this, but of course, that would not be a definitive conclusion.

Since the ability to get controlled feedback is dependent on several factors, perhaps the question is more "can you comment on how the Axe11/RCF rig performs in getting controlled feedback compared to your (past or present) favourite traditional guitar amp rig?

Thanks again to all who take the time to share thoughts.

Mack
 
Mack said:
Thanks for the comments, guys. I really appreciate it. Scott, I had asked for your input specifically because I have been following your CLR thread as well. Thanks for replying.

To be clear, I didn't take the "no feedback" thing literally, but I speculated that it has, by design, good feedback rejection performance. I'm not really too concerned about whether the RCF rejects unwanted feedback (I'm sure that it does that as well or better than other speakers). My concern is that, all other things being equal, it may be more difficult to get controlled feedback than a traditional guitar rig. The experience of the owner that Rick refers to may have been experiencing this, but of course, that would not be a definitive conclusion.

Since the ability to get controlled feedback is dependent on several factors, perhaps the question is more "can you comment on how the Axe11/RCF rig performs in getting controlled feedback compared to your (past or present) favourite traditional guitar amp rig?

Thanks again to all who take the time to share thoughts.

Mack
Click to expand...

I've always found it 'more' difficult to get controlled feedback with a FRFR/direct to FOH rig, but again it's more influenced by one specific factor than any other - the directional nature of the wedge type speakers. Unless there is some digital processing to kill feedback by notching it out, it's not anything other than simple physics. Turn the speaker up, get it in the sweet spot and you have your musical feedback (which is a closed loop between the guitar 'hearing' aka vibrating in concert with the sound of it's amplified signal).

IMHO, this always seems 'easier' with traditional guitar rigs because you turn them up louder than you tend to with a powered wedge... because of one simple thing. The powered wedge is aimed at your head. It's aimed at your ears, so it cannot be as loud. Put your head in front of your traditional rig at the distance you do a wedge... ouch.
 
I think Scott hit the nail on the head with the volume issue. FRFR wedges are aimed at your head, so they aren't usually turned up as loud as traditional cabs.

TBH, I can't agree with the directionality issue. Most FRFR speakers, including the NX12SMA, are far less directional than traditional guitar cabinets.


A page on RCF's web site has these words: "The advantages of the coaxial transducers are the complete absence of feedback..." next to a picture of an NX12SMA with a microphone held 3" in front of it (http://www.rcf.it/c/journal_article...3&version=1.0&groupId=216492&languageId=en_US). I have to call BS on that.


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Odd, I had no problem getting plenty of very natural feedback when I had an RCF, I expect the CFR's to work just as well ... perhaps I had the RCF turned up more than some, dunno .. but it worked very well for me and squealed just fiiiiine. (no, not like a pig ...)
 
I don't speak for RCF, but I thought low-feedback was due to good off-axis frequency response.

Wedges with uniform frequency response off axis are not as prone to microphone feedback on stage.

I like to use the same brand wedges and vocal mics for the front line so that any EQ changes I make in the wedges don't cause even more issues between the different brands / types of wedges and mics for similar reasons to my frequency response comment on RCF.

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
I don't speak for RCF, but I thought low-feedback was due to good off-axis frequency response.
Click to expand...
Uniform frequency response can help reduce feedback sometimes. You may be able to crank the monitors higher without emphasizing one range of frequencies. I think sometimes it's the other way. For instance, if your monitors have reduced highs off-axis, and those highs are where the room wants to feed back, then the reduced frequency response could actually help prevent feedback.

What I take issue with is the claim that feedback is completely eliminated, accompanied by a picture of a microphone right in front of the wedge. Gimme that mic, and I'll make it feed back. :)
 
Rex said:
Uniform frequency response can help reduce feedback sometimes. What I take issue with is the claim that feedback is completely eliminated, accompanied by a picture of a microphone right in front of the wedge. Gimme that mic, and I'll make it feed back. :)
Click to expand...

In my experience, the more uniform the repsonse, the less feedback in all situations that I have seen. Especially true when the band is playing in a bad spot in the room, e.g. a corner or backed by a glass wall etc.

Agree about their feedback claim though. Sounds like marke-tease. And I have owned but dislike the those feedback eliminating auto-notching parametric EQ's also.

Richard
 
I use a pair of NX10SMA output 1, FOH output2, Axe Standard, Strat w/bridge HB, and loose fitting PM's in a medium stage volume environment, wedged on the floor. (church band) Without the cabs running, my strat looses sustain completely..yuk. They acoustically couple very nicely, and I get controlled harmonic sustain very easily. The vocal ensemble lost a wedge last week, I let them use one of my RCF's...the ensemble and the sound tech were amazed at the clarity and coverage compared to an exspensive, 15" Yorkville powered floor monitor.
Good responses here, If your considering a purchase, you won't regret it!
John
 
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