Question about Cabinet IRs

T

TomBisbano

Member
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be as clear as possible.

I have owned the FM3 for almost 2 years and had the AX8 for about 4 years prior to that. With both units I have noticed a substantial bump at around 137 HZ. I have tried everything from adjusting the Input EQ to the Low Cut in the Cab Block to the PEQ at the end of the chain with no luck at getting this area under control. I can cut the frequency with the PEQ and get rid of it but I lose pretty much everything that makes that cab into that cab. It just sounds "fake". With this method I have tried rounded curves and also the more "surgical" approach of just cutting the offending frequency. I have tried 1x12 cab IRs to 2x12 to 4x12 (1 cab at a time or 2 at a time). The Multi Band Comp does get rid of most of the trouble but the comp brings a bit of upper end distortion that gives everything a little too much "grit" and that just ruins the tone for me. Also tried the comp in the amp block's dynamic page. It helps but doesn't target that frequency specifically. This frequency (137hz) really booms if I am palm muting a C# chord at the 4th fret. I have had a little luck with Leon Todd's Mix 7 IR but not enough to just use that as my main IR. I have also used various units in the drive block to try to tighten stuff up but still no luck. Also tried going with a clean amp model and getting the gain from the Drive block. I have tried every possible combination of the above mentioned and I am just getting more frustrated.

For some context: I am not using the FM3 for live shows or for rehearsals. This is strictly being used in my home studio. I am playing various guitars from PRS McCarty to Carvin to Gibson and this frequency is crazy with all the guitars that I have played into it. All guitars have stock pickups. I have tried a few of my student's guitars into the FM3 ( Ibanez, Schecter, PRS, Kramer). Again, these are all stock pickups. I have also switched out studio monitors with no luck in solving the problem. I went from a set of M-Audio to currently using Focal Alpha 50 monitors. Also, my room is completely treated. Expensive but totally worth it since this is my home studio and I also teach out of it daily. Money well spent. Speakers are front ported and are not right up against the wall and they are de-coupled from the top of the desk. I have some friends in the area that have the FM3 and different studio monitors with different guitars but they all have this same issue. I must also note that I have tried building my own presets and also tried modifying Factory Presets with the same results.

For some more context: I play mainly instrumental Hard Rock. Not using a super distorted tone and not looking for anything "icy picky" in nature. I am trying to get a nice smooth top end with a tight (not grainy) low end. I am very aware of the difference in a guitar sound to record with and a guitar sound to jam around with.

So...Finally... Does anyone know of an IR that doesn't have the bump around 137HZ? I would prefer to stay with the Factory IRs but I am willing to spend the money on 3rd party stuff. I just want to avoid the rabbit hole that IRs can cause. I have spent countless hours shuffling through the Factory IRs but there is SO MUCH and after a while I just hit the wall.
 
Do you hear the problematic Frequency also with only Headphones connected to the FM3 and disconnected USB Soundcard monitoring?
Post your Preset!
 
TomBisbano said:
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be as clear as possible.

I have owned the FM3 for almost 2 years and had the AX8 for about 4 years prior to that. With both units I have noticed a substantial bump at around 137 HZ. I have tried everything from adjusting the Input EQ to the Low Cut in the Cab Block to the PEQ at the end of the chain with no luck at getting this area under control. I can cut the frequency with the PEQ and get rid of it but I lose pretty much everything that makes that cab into that cab. It just sounds "fake". With this method I have tried rounded curves and also the more "surgical" approach of just cutting the offending frequency. I have tried 1x12 cab IRs to 2x12 to 4x12 (1 cab at a time or 2 at a time). The Multi Band Comp does get rid of most of the trouble but the comp brings a bit of upper end distortion that gives everything a little too much "grit" and that just ruins the tone for me. Also tried the comp in the amp block's dynamic page. It helps but doesn't target that frequency specifically. This frequency (137hz) really booms if I am palm muting a C# chord at the 4th fret. I have had a little luck with Leon Todd's Mix 7 IR but not enough to just use that as my main IR. I have also used various units in the drive block to try to tighten stuff up but still no luck. Also tried going with a clean amp model and getting the gain from the Drive block. I have tried every possible combination of the above mentioned and I am just getting more frustrated.

For some context: I am not using the FM3 for live shows or for rehearsals. This is strictly being used in my home studio. I am playing various guitars from PRS McCarty to Carvin to Gibson and this frequency is crazy with all the guitars that I have played into it. All guitars have stock pickups. I have tried a few of my student's guitars into the FM3 ( Ibanez, Schecter, PRS, Kramer). Again, these are all stock pickups. I have also switched out studio monitors with no luck in solving the problem. I went from a set of M-Audio to currently using Focal Alpha 50 monitors. Also, my room is completely treated. Expensive but totally worth it since this is my home studio and I also teach out of it daily. Money well spent. Speakers are front ported and are not right up against the wall and they are de-coupled from the top of the desk. I have some friends in the area that have the FM3 and different studio monitors with different guitars but they all have this same issue. I must also note that I have tried building my own presets and also tried modifying Factory Presets with the same results.

For some more context: I play mainly instrumental Hard Rock. Not using a super distorted tone and not looking for anything "icy picky" in nature. I am trying to get a nice smooth top end with a tight (not grainy) low end. I am very aware of the difference in a guitar sound to record with and a guitar sound to jam around with.

So...Finally... Does anyone know of an IR that doesn't have the bump around 137HZ? I would prefer to stay with the Factory IRs but I am willing to spend the money on 3rd party stuff. I just want to avoid the rabbit hole that IRs can cause. I have spent countless hours shuffling through the Factory IRs but there is SO MUCH and after a while I just hit the wall.
Click to expand...
That bump is a resonant frequency of the room you're in. You can't get rid of it without destroying your room. :)
 
Rex said:
That bump is a resonant frequency of the room you're in. You can't get rid of it without destroying your room. :)
Click to expand...
I honestly do not think that it is the room considering that I have friends who own the FM3 and they have the same issue in their home studios. Unless this is a common frequency range issue? I appreciate the input. At this point I am looking for IRs that don't have the boominess at 137 HZ. I have tried to remove some of it using the Speaker tab in the Amp Block. Again it removes most of it but the sound of the amp/cab goes with it. Also I neglected to mention that I ran a Mesa V 25 through a load box into these same speakers in the same treated room and didn't have the boom at 137 HZ. I didn't stay with the Mesa because I am more of a fan of the Plexi sound and I like the Fractal and the options that it provides... just hate the 137 HZ boom. Everything else sounds great and I would hate to move on to something else.
 
TomBisbano said:
I honestly do not think that it is the room considering that I have friends who own the FM3 and they have the same issue in their home studios. Unless this is a common frequency range issue? I appreciate the input.
Click to expand...
Home studios tend to be spare bedrooms. These bedrooms have similar dimensions and similar resonances.

The fact that the issue persists across all IRs tells us that it's not the IR. In your testing, what has remained constant besides the room?
 
Shot in the dark here. A while ago, someone on this forum sold an FM3 and bought a Mesa Boogie JP-2C because that was the only amp model they ever used. They wanted an IR that approximated the Mes 4x12 JP found in the fractal cab library. Because they couldn't use the Fractal cabs anymore, they had to find an IR that approximated it.

I have many of the York Audio IRs, including the Mesa 4x12 with a JP signature... so I offered to do a comparison. When I compared it to the Fractal, they were very different. The Fractal was extremely dark and had a lot of low end. I couldn't find any IR from my York library that had that much low end and was that dark.... at least without tweaking quite a bit.

Your query seems to be the opposite. I would check out the York Audio stuff. To me... they sound more open and detailed than some of the Fractal cabs.

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjone.com
 
Rex said:
Home studios tend to be spare bedrooms. These bedrooms have similar dimensions and similar resonances.

The fact that the issue persists across all IRs tells us that it's not the IR. In your testing, what has remained constant besides the room?
Click to expand...
Nothing other than my room. As for my friends who own the FM3 their situations vary. One uses a large unfinished (but treated) basement another uses his living room and another uses a large, finished basement. My studio is about 12x14 and treated with 2" thick acoustic tile and bass traps in each corner where the wall meets the ceiling. The fact that it is always happening at 137HZ and nowhere else and it happens regardless of the room, speakers or guitars is why I was thinking that it could be something that is baked into the IRs.
 
smj said:
Shot in the dark here. A while ago, someone on this forum sold an FM3 and bought a Mesa Boogie JP-2C because that was the only amp model they ever used. They wanted an IR that approximated the Mes 4x12 JP found in the fractal cab library. Because they couldn't use the Fractal cabs anymore, they had to find an IR that approximated it.

I have many of the York Audio IRs, including the Mesa 4x12 with a JP signature... so I offered to do a comparison. When I compared it to the Fractal, they were very different. The Fractal was extremely dark and had a lot of low end. I couldn't find any IR from my York library that had that much low end and was that dark.... at least without tweaking quite a bit.

Your query seems to be the opposite. I would check out the York Audio stuff. To me... they sound more open and detailed than some of the Fractal cabs.

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjone.com
Click to expand...
Thank you! I will check out their stuff.
 
You mentioned IRs but don't really mention Amps.

What amp models have you tried? With those models, what Speaker Impedance Curves have you tried?

Have you tried adjusting the LF Resonance Frequency and LF Resonance controls?
 
TomBisbano said:
.The fact that it is always happening at 137HZ and nowhere else and it happens regardless of the room, speakers or guitars is why I was thinking that it could be something that is baked into the IRs.
Click to expand...
What you just said points to either your monitoring solution or the room. Does this happen with the 1x4 Pig IR? What happens if you disable cab modeling? What if you put a brick wall filter at about 200hz, does it go away?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom