QSC HPR 122i vs Verve 12ma

Jay Mitchell said:
hippietim said:
Jay are your Farfield IRs the ones up on axechange.net?
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All but two. The two nearfield IRs have "NF" in the title.
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Quick question Jay: looking at all cabs from you on Axechange, I found two with "NF" in the title - so far so good. However, there is also one called "Eminence Legend on Axis", and I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that your far-mic'ed cabs are *not* on axis. Which would lead me to think that this particular "Eminence Legend on Axis" IR is *also* of the "NF" category.

Is this a correct assumption? Apologies if I'm asking you to repeat yourself... it takes a fair bit to get this stuff across my thick skull.

Daniel
 
Dpoirier said:
However, there is also one called "Eminence Legend on Axis", and I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that your far-mic'ed cabs are *not* on axis. Which would lead me to think that this particular "Eminence Legend on Axis" IR is *also* of the "NF" category.
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Nope. It's a farfield IR, posted in response to a request from Deltones.

Whenever I acquire IR data, I test at several different angles, including on axis, and then choose the mic position that yields the best sound for my purposes. Most guitar transducers have huge response peaks in the 2500-3500Hz range on axis. To my ears, the on-axis IR of this type of speaker is far too bright, just as the actual sound of the speaker on axis is far too bright, so I use an off-axis IR instead.

Deltones has Legend 1258s and likes their sound. He requested that I post my too-bright on-axis IR of that transducer, and he ended up liking it. I've left it up for that reason. The clean 2x12 IR is also on axis. Those transducers, which are identical in specifications to EVM-12s, have no on-axis peak in their response.
 
Thanks for the clarification, Jay. Crisp and clear (close-mic'ed ones consistently have "NF" in their names).
 
Ok, tonight was the first rehearsal with the 12ma. I had almost no time to dial in any patches at all - literally an hour before rehearsal I dialed in 5 basic dry tones.

It sounded OK. I wasn't cutting through without being loud.

I still haven't had a chance to try out any user IRs but I really need to do some experimentation because that is most definitely the problem I'm having at this point.

One important thing that we all know but it's easy to forget/overlook - you have to dial in your patches at a volume like you're playing at - not too loud and not too quiet. I found that a couple patches really sounded very thin because I was cranking when I dialed them in and when I dialed the volume back for rehearsal the patches were lost.

On another note, we tried out a couple new tunes tonight that I'm playing "acoustic" on (Parker Bronze Fly) and I just plugged straight into the Axe and disabled basically everything (fundamentally a straight shot to the output) and the 12ma sounded great for the acoustic guitar. Once I dial in some EQ and reverb with the Axe-FX I think it's going to sound great. I also want to try out those acoustic IRs.
 
Quick question for Jay:

In the stock Axe-Fx cab banks arent a couple of your IRs included? Which ones are they, and are they near or far field? Also, are they duplicates of ones you have posted on the Axe-change?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.
 
supersecretjim said:
Quick question for Jay:

In the stock Axe-Fx cab banks arent a couple of your IRs included? Which ones are they, and are they near or far field? Also, are they duplicates of ones you have posted on the Axe-change?
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Yes (three), 1x12 Open Back, 2x12 G12H, and 2x12 Gold, farfield, no (Cliff does his proprietary processing thing to the factory IRs).
 
Jay Mitchell said:
supersecretjim said:
Quick question for Jay:

In the stock Axe-Fx cab banks arent a couple of your IRs included? Which ones are they, and are they near or far field? Also, are they duplicates of ones you have posted on the Axe-change?
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Yes (three), 1x12 Open Back, 2x12 G12H, and 2x12 Gold, farfield, no (Cliff does his proprietary processing thing to the factory IRs).
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Those are pretty nice IRs. It's great that guys like you have the know-how and willingness to share that sort of thing. I notice that your available IRs are all 1x12 or 2x12 - have you ever done any 4x12 IRs or do you just not care for 4x12 cabs?
 
hippietim said:
I notice that your available IRs are all 1x12 or 2x12 - have you ever done any 4x12 IRs or do you just not care for 4x12 cabs?
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http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewtopic.php?t=5135&mforum=axefx
 
nextfoolmartyr said:
Did someone say weight issues?


http://www.gatorcases.com/productsmodel ... 94&MID=462



I havent ordered mine yet, but in a weeks time...
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I have one of these, on the upside on flat ground you can wheel your QSC around until your heart's content without destroying your back, on the downside when you do have to carry/lift the cab then it makes it quite a bit bigger and heavier :(

Still.. worth it for the wheeling it round though...

Oh yeah and it only just fits in....

Still find it very useful though :)
 
Jay Mitchell said:
The clean 2x12 IR is also on axis. Those transducers, which are identical in specifications to EVM-12s, have no on-axis peak in their response.
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What transducers are identical spec-wise to EVM-12Ls?
I hope you're not talking about the Eminence Delta Pro 12A.
I owned one of those and it sounds and behaves nothing like an EVM-12L.
It does have a big magnet though and is just as heavy. lol
 
joegold said:
What transducers are identical spec-wise to EVM-12Ls?
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They're not available to you. They are transducers for which I wrote the specifications and had manufactured for my company beginning more than 20 years ago. As it later turned out, the speakers are near-identical in specifications and performance to EVM12-Ls, although I had no idea of that when I wrote the specifications.

FWIW, I have some pre-production samples of a very similar transducer from Cetec Gauss. These samples were provided to me a few months before EV absorbed and completely ruined that formerly excellent company. The sample transducers that EV claimed were identical to the Gauss ones - allegedly made using all the same parts - were in fact not remotely similar and could not approach the performance of the Gauss samples. Needless to say, I passed.
 
Scott, I spent quite a bit of time comparing your Bogner patch using the FBT Verve 12ma and the QSC HPR 122i. I left the minimal reverb and delay on and all the other effects off as the patch was saved and I didn't mess with any of your settings.

First off, that's a pretty good patch to test with - a good solid medium gain crunch that responds well to backing off your guitar volume and is happy with single coils or humbuckers. I also ran my Crybaby 95Q and Fulltone Deja-Vibe in front of the Axe-FX and kicked them in from time to time - they worked well with this.

Overall the patch sounds pretty good on either system - of course I'd want to tweak it for my own uses but if someone handed me a guitar at a jam and that was my tone I'd be pleased. I listened at moderately (pretty) loud rock band volume.

I'll spoil it and say there is no question that I like the FBT better than the QSC. However, the QSC is obviously a good rig (we use it for our PA at rehearsal and sometimes live).

Both cabs get loud as shit. The QSC definitely can be louder but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near either one cranked all the way up. IOW, they both have plenty of juice.

The FBT is more open sounding - I know that's a fluffy term but that is the best word I can think of. By comparison the QSC makes everything feel more constrained/muted.

I would get adjusted to the sound coming out of the QSC and think it sounded pretty damn good and then switch to the FBT and it really sounded like someone pulled my rig out of a confined room (I believe someone else mentioned playing in a tunnel - that's a good way to put it).

It's definitely not a "blanket over the speakers" sort of thing because there is plenty of good sound coming out of the QSC.

So I'm going to try and proceed with a FRFR rig with just the Axe-FX and the FBT and a couple pedals.
 
Hippietim, You're using just ONE fbt? How is the Axe out put set? L+R Sum? Noticed earlier in this thread Jay mentioning to be careful using this setting. I've been using it lately and it seems to be OK for my created patches that don't have the enhacer on. My delays are set in mono on the effect blocks as well. Anyone else?
 
TonyGring said:
Hippietim, You're using just ONE fbt? How is the Axe out put set? L+R Sum? Noticed earlier in this thread Jay mentioning to be careful using this setting. I've been using it lately and it seems to be OK for my created patches that don't have the enhacer on. My delays are set in mono on the effect blocks as well. Anyone else?
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All my patches are dialed in for mono. I never use the enhancer. My patches are very simple.
 
I'm really confused and since I haven't played with the Ultra yet, I don't know who to trust. Right now, I have the typical setup: Budda SD45 into a Marshall 4x12. I really want to get the most out of the Axe and was going to go the full route using FRFR monitors. Then someone told me that since I am trying to get the guitar to sound like a guitar, I should use the Marshall cab. The problem is all this experimentation costs alot of money. If I were to buy a pair of FBT's (the passive version) and it didn't work out, I would be out over a grand. But my ultimate goal is to have the diversity of the unit and not be confined by the Marshall cab sound.

My question: Is it possible to get that in the room Marshall sound out of the FBT's?
 
Mitch.....

IMO you are going to have to experiment....no way around it if you want to know for sure what the Axe sounds like with your situation.

Some guys love the FRFR sound (simulating recorded tones)and some swear that they get the in the room sound...I like it just as much as my 4X12...but I still feel there is a difference...

Not bad really just different.

I wish I could go either way and get the produced sound or the raw tone...but it is very close either way

You will just need to decide if it does it for you.

Try and buy used if you can during your experimentation..that way you won't be out much if any during the journey.

Good Luck...it really is a lot of fun !
 
Ok, second rehearsal with the 12ma last night.

Since I had previously loaded the cabs that Scott uses for his Bogner patch I gave those a whirl for my own patches and ended up using one of them. I also used the stock JCM 2000 4x12 for a couple settings.

Last night was much better than last week. I spent about an hour tweaking patches before rehearsal - our drummer showed up about 15 minutes into that so I was able to do some good tweaking at the right volume and get my levels across patches better balanced (although I did more of that as rehearsal went on).

I had dialed in a very nice acoustic patch for my Parker Bronze Fly using the tube preamp, graphic EQ, multi-band compressor, and a touch of reverb. Other than needing to slightly tweak the EQ and bring up the level, the patch sounded great in the mix. I still need to try one of the Mama Bear IRs.

I have one patch that uses two amps (clean and very heavy) and uses the pitch shifter to drop down a 4th (pretend 7-string) for Lacuna Coil's cover of Enjoy the Silence - this patch killed last night.

I still have a bunch of tweaking to do but last night was the first time I've ever used a digital guitar rig through a FRFR setup and been satisfied.

The rest of the band thought things sounded pretty good. Our other guitarist recently switched from using a Line 6 rig to using a Boss GT-10. He's running through an Egnater 2x12 and one of my Rocktron power amps. He's not that much of a gear head so was pretty oblivious to how my rig was put together. Since I've been experimenting so much lately my rig is in a bit of disarray - my rack currently has a Bogner Fish in it and that rack is sitting on top of a 2-space rack that has my Boogie 2:90 power amp. My 12ma is sitting on top of my Port City 2x12 cabinet. He knew I was running through the 12ma but hadn't grocked that the Boogie power amp and Fish weren't being used at all (in fact, they're not even powered on). After practice last night we spent a bunch of time talking about our rigs and when he finally realized that I was running straight from the Axe-FX into the 12ma he was floored because it really did sound pretty damn good last night. Now he wants to experiment with the 12ma and his GT-10. I think that'll be a sweet rig - the GT-10 is a very good unit and I'm pretty sure it's going to sound good through the 12ma.
 
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