Preset Building: Tone Morphing

I'm going with the BE, cleans ups very well with the gain around 4-5. TV mix cab for me.

The HBE is great too! Way better in V10 than before.
 
why360 said:
Yah, love the JVM here. That one has a great crackle to it. Notes sound like they are on fire. It doesn't seem to clean up to well. That would probably be my choice if it did.

Really loving the Plexi and it cleans up wonderfully !!!!
Click to expand...

now that sounds like a challenge...
JVM OD2 Orange it is..
 
here's my choice
JVM OD2 Orange -> Mono HiRes Cab: 4x12 Basketweave TV mix

ok, it's a bit brighter than my normal choices, but loving this none the less
and it's mental sort of hot...
 
So you were able to get it to clean up using means outside of the amp block? Or are modifying gain, input trim, and the like...?
 
Next Task: Assign the drive to a modifier that is controlled by an expression pedal

in my case this is XP1 [my personal choice: external pedal 1]
in the MFC, XP1 is assigned to CC:16 [MIDI Control Change number 16]
in the Axe:I/O:CTRL you'll see that CC:16 is used by EXT CTRL 1 [external control number 1]
EXT CTRL 1 maps to modifier source: extern 1 [external number 1]

you don't have to use my settings..
mine are just an example to illustrate how things hook up from the pedal through to the modifier..

in the modifier my max setting = 5
this means when I'm toe down, my amp's drive value will be set to 5 [which with this particular amp is pretty hot]
my min setting = 0.07 [this cleans up this particular amp just enough so that when I play finger style one the neck pup it's pretty clean]

Note: the way that different amps clean up is not the same
with lower gain amps you may not need to cut back quite so hard with the min value
with higher gain amps like the 5153Red, the drive on it's own is not enough to get clean [even with the drive min set at 0.01 in the modifier]..
in this case you'll also need to lower the signal level entering the amp to clean still further
the way to do this is to also assign the input-trim to the same modifier [max=1.0, min= 'whatever it takes to clean up' <-- 5153Red needs a very small value in here]
 
Observations:
with this 'cleaned' tone you'll notice a few few things
and for different amp types these effects may be stronger than others

- the tone gets quiet [in some cases drastically so]

- the tone will get thin [like all the low end falls away]

- the tone may lose some definition / highs [actually with the JVM OD2 this don't happen, but with the 5153Red this is certainly true]

- the tone may feel a bit 'brittle' [as is it's lost all it's girth and energy]

don't worry, all this is normal - cos we've just cut the drive to almost zero [for those us using higher gain amps]
those of you using lower gain amps will clean up at higher min drive settings, so these effects will be less strong..

rule of thumb: the higher gain the amp type, the more drive cut is needed to clean up
therefore, the more tone is lost during the cleaning processes, and so the more processing you need to do in order to put the meat back on the bone

play repeatedly toe down and heel down..
make a note of what is happening to your cleaned tone in terms of how it sounds and how it feels..
cos the next steps are about fixing it up..
 
why360 said:
So you were able to get it to clean up using means outside of the amp block? Or are modifying gain, input trim, and the like...?
Click to expand...

in my case [the JVM OD2 Or], it was just the drive parm...
so it was all within the amp block..
but the drive needed to get pretty low [min=0.07]
 
clarky said:
Observations:
with this 'cleaned' tone you'll notice a few few things
and for different amp types these effects may be stronger than others

- the tone gets quiet [in some cases drastically so]

- the tone will get thin [like all the low end falls away]

- the tone may lose some definition / highs [actually with the JVM OD2 this don't happen, but with the 5153Red this is certainly true]

- the tone may feel a bit 'brittle' [as is it's lost all it's girth and energy]

don't worry, all this is normal - cos we've just cut the drive to almost zero [for those us using higher gain amps]
those of you using lower gain amps will clean up at higher min drive settings, so these effects will be less strong..

rule of thumb: the higher gain the amp type, the more drive cut is needed to clean up
therefore, the more tone is lost during the cleaning processes, and so the more processing you need to do in order to put the meat back on the bone

play repeatedly toe down and heel down..
make a note of what is happening to your cleaned tone in terms of how it sounds and how it feels..
cos the next steps are about fixing it up..
Click to expand...

I am following you. I gave up long before 0.07 on the JVM for the reasons listed above.

Loving the step by step break down Clarky. Thanks very much for taking the time, I truly mean it! Utterly cool of you!
 
clarky said:
Next Task: Assign the drive to a modifier that is controlled by an expression pedal
Click to expand...
I've got my ODS100 set up at 4.50 toe-down, 0.54 toe-up. There's just a hint of dirt when I spank it. Go to single-coil and it's clean, no matter how hard I hit it.
 
why360 said:
I am following you. I gave up long before 0.07 on the JVM for the reasons listed above.

Loving the step by step break down Clarky. Thanks very much for taking the time, I truly mean it! Utterly cool of you!
Click to expand...

essentially... you take down whatever is needed to clean the tone..
if drive alone is not enough then start cutting the input level
you have choices here...
you can either start cutting the input-trim inside the amp block..
or you can do it externally [via a vol block]

my original presets used the drive and input-trim
the preset I built in this thread used drive plus vol blocks
the reason being that I was using X and Y amps and their cleaning needs were not the same..
had I used input-trim, this would have imposed the same input level cleaning on both the X and Y amps
using a vol block for the X side and another for the Y side enabled me to use different min/max settings and curves that better suited each amp

in the example we're working on now.. we have the same choices..
in my case, I can clean enough without needing a vol block or input-trim
had I chosen a mega hot amp like a 5150 or a Herbert ch3, I'd have needed the extras to cut the gain..

notice that Rex only needed to drop the drive to 0.54..
this indicates that this is a much lower gain amp..
and so it cleans more easily..
and from a tone perspective, it may not need such strong fixing up...
 
Next task: fix the sensitivity of the cleaned tone

due to the drop in gain when the XP is heel down you'll have lost some of the sensitivity..
so the tone will feel sticky and harder work to play...
some of you will like this wider dynamic range.. especially the bluesers...
personally.. I like the cleaned to to be compressed a little..

add a compressor
place it before the amp block
set the XP to the heel down position and dial the compressor in until it sweetens the tone and feel...
Note:don't place the comp right in front of the amp, leave a space in case we need to add something else later..
your chain should be:
in -> couple of shunts -> comp -> shunt -> amp -> cab -> more shunts -> out

observations:
when the compressor is in, it'll sound great on the cleaned tone
but it may well upset the dirty tone..
don't worry about that right now [we'll look at that next..]
 
comp added:
type = pedal
sustain = 6.0

that was all I needed...

surprisingly.. I actually quite like the feel of this amp's dirty tone with the comp still in...
but in the interests of this exercise, I'll consider that I don't... lol...
so I'll need to dial it out of the dirty tone...

so.. I'll wait for you guys to catch up... then we'll fix the comp
 
clarky said:
Next task: fix the sensitivity of the cleaned tone...add a compressor...
Click to expand...
I wound up with a Pedal 1 compressor, Sustain at 6.34. The clean tone still sounds pretty weak, though. I'm sure some of that has to do with the massive drop in level, but there's not a lot of sparkle there. I have no doubt we'll address that later. :)
 
this is normal... we have more fixing to do....

note though... a 'cleaned' tone will never be the same as a real clean amp...
it has different qualities..

there is of course much more fun stuff to come
 
here's a lil' thing to consider before we start dialling in the fixes...

are you happy with the rate that the gain 'grows' as you move the XP from heel to toe?
would you like the cleaned tone to remain cleaner for longer and have the dirt rush in as the XP heads towards the final 1/3 of it's throw?
would you like the dirty stuff to start happening a little sooner?
or is the current rate of change working for you?

different amps behave differently
as you'd expect, the higher gain amps will start dirtying the tone more quickly
in my case, I'm quite liking the JVM's rate of change pretty good as it is
in my presets that contani the hotter amps [5153Red etc] the rate of change is much much faster..
so I slow it down by changing the shape of the modifier curve
I make the middle part of the curve sag a little..
the outcome is that as the XP moves from heel to toe, the dirt builds gradually and then rushes in towards the end..
holding the tone clean in the early 1/3 of the throw also makes it a little easier to 'cock' the XP to a slightly clipping tone..

experiment with the shape of your modifier curve and see how this feels when you move the XP from heel to toe and back...
 
Next task: assign compressor: mix to your morphing modifier [in my case this is extern1]

we may not want a compressed guitar entering a dirty amp
but we do want a compressed guitar entering a 'cleaned' amp
heel down [modifer:min value] we want the compressor:mix parm to be 100% wet to thicken the cleaned tone
toe down we want either:
- end=0 so that there is no compression at all
or
- end=lower value than 100 to reduce [rather than eliminate] the amount of compression

experiment with this.. it's really your choice..
listen and also note the 'feel' of the dirty tone with 100% compression, less copression and no compression
what we are looking to fix at this point in our preset's development are the extreme ends of the XP's throw so only test heel down and toe down [nothing in between]

when you have nailed this part we now need to look at the transition from 100% compression [heel] to less% / 0% compression as the XP travels from heel to toe and back..
move the XP quite slowly whilst you're playing..
Listen for:
- smooth transition in volume
- no volume boost at the XP's mid point [so heel is quietest, toe is loudest and there's no sudden level spike somewhere in the middle
- no volume dip at the mid-point [same as above but in reverse]
- smooth transition in 'dirt' [essenitally the tone gets dirty at the rate you like]
in my case, as the XP moves from heel to toe, I like to hold it on the cleaner side and have the serious dirt rush in towards the end of the XP's throw to toe.
this is done by lowering the modifier:mid value to make the modifier's diagonal line becomes a curve

when it comes to handling the compressor's modifier curve, I like the compressor to start getting wet when the tone starts hitting a 'medium crunch' tone
this means that I set the modifier:max and modifier:mid values the same [or to values that are closer together]
example:
start=100
mid=0
end=0
personally, I like just a touch of cmopression in my dirty tone so it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up with something more like this
start=100
mid=15 [or another value in the 10 to 25 range]
end=10
the point here is that the compression only really starts happening in a strong way in and around the 'cleaner' tonal area
time to experiment....

idea...
would it help you guys if I recorded a couple of very short clips as we build this preset...
then you can hear what I'm hearing as this preset 'grows'
actually.. maybe a single clip that gets longer as the preset grows..
so my clip right now would be something like this:
- riff tone with no morphing
- riff tone morphs to clean with only the drive assigned
- clean morphed tone with the compressor [showing the transition between heel and toe]
- clean morphed tone with the compressor:mix under modifier control [showing the transition between heel and toe]

EDIT: sorry guys I made an error in terms...
in the modifier chat I was referring to the MIN and MAX settings where I should have been talking about the START and END settings..
 
Last edited:
Yuck! Busy day...I didn't get a chance to play with compressor mix-morphing. Tomorrow will be my catch-up day.
 
been upgrading my Mac over the last few days...
once I've checked everything out and got back into the swing of things I'll make a short clip..
 
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