Preset Building: Tone Morphing

clarky said:
they can be made to sound real similar
there are differences but they are minute
5153Blue had Bright, Sat and Boost on
5153Red had Bright and Sat on, Boost was off...
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In reptrospect, that sounds perfectly reasonable—different channels on the same amp, likely using much of the same circuitry. But I wouldn't have known if you hadn't labbed it. Thanks.


clarky said:
when I hit scene2 [solo]
amp1 [5153Red] does not switch X-Y
a volume block un-bypasses to give a huge level boost
the boost switch = on [via a modifier]

this means that the riff to solo transition should [in theory] be immediate [without the slight X to Y change lag]
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IMO, that's one of the best ways to a boost. I usually use a PEQ instead of a Vol block, dialed up with a broad, soft bump at 800 Hz. BUt then, I don't go as deep as you in massaging my pedal-borne tweaks, so that lets me kill two birds with one stone.
 
clarky said:
'nuver idea

this opens up amp1:Y to another possibility...
the Hiwatt Normal for clean left

this could get interesting

scene1: riff = 'lean 5153Red' left / Herbert ch2+ right
scene2: solo = 'hot 5153Red' centre
scene3: clean = Hiwatt left / JCM800 right
scene4: crunchy = JCM800 centre

where scenes 1 and 2 run the X side amps and cabs
and scenes 3 and 4 run the Y side amps and cabs

time to experiment some more
Click to expand...

this can't be an option...
the reason is that the X and Y modifiers are not independent..
so this causes panning probs...

scene3 would require amp1:Y to the left and amp2:Y to the right
scene4 requires amp2:Y to the centre
and I've already used the modifiers to handle the panning on the X side of the amps...

shame, cos the Hiwatt and the JCM800 sounded wonderful together

to get the Hiwatt and JCM together for a clean tone means creating a "clean / solo" preset..
which puts me back to where I was before without scenes

this was a really nice idea...
but the functionality just isn't quite there yet to make all this happen...

time to reconsider....
 
Rex said:
In reptrospect, that sounds perfectly reasonable—different channels on the same amp, likely using much of the same circuitry. But I wouldn't have known if you hadn't labbed it. Thanks.
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now you mention it.. I'm kinda surprised that I was surprised... lmao
but then, it does make sense that there is essentially a 'tonal crossover' between the different channels...
cos then you can cover all your bases from clean through to hi-gain yet retain a sort of tonal continuity..
if I only needed to riff, I'd have opted for the Blue cos it's a touch thicker sounding...
but for live usage, I need to riff and solo.. and this is where the Red wins..
I can tame a Red into a "90% of Blue" tone..
but I can't fire up the Blue to get close to a hot Red without it developing a bad case of the

Rex said:
IMO, that's one of the best ways to a boost. I usually use a PEQ instead of a Vol block, dialed up with a broad, soft bump at 800 Hz. BUt then, I don't go as deep as you in massaging my pedal-borne tweaks, so that lets me kill two birds with one stone.
Click to expand...

the Red with the Boost off starts getting close to a 'hot Blue'
so solo, I usually have the Red boosted and with a huge dose of extra level entering from a volume block
the only difference here with my original approach is adding the modifier to the Boost switch to allow me to make that transition to full-on hotness..
I use my PEQ differently to you [post amp] to replace the low's and highs that get sucked out during the cleaning process
which is why it's in parallel with the direct signal and they both hit the mixer [which crossfades between them]
it's a crude solution, but it seems to work..
 
Amazing work and patch Clarky!
I think some of the effects are still attached to your global links.
I was unable to adjust delay or reverb (I could adjust settings but it didn't affect the output) I also had to delete and add a wah in before I could get the ext modifier to work....weird but just bringing it to your attention.

In Scene 1 is found the clean volume a lot lower than the crunch....is this by design? I didn't notice that in your Soundcloud demo. I turned up the master on the Blue to compensate...if I recall correctly.

I'm still studying you patch in amazement.....I still haven't been able to grasp how you achieved this! Just awesome...thanks for sharing.
 
I didn't global link the delay so I've no idea why the was playing up..
note though that the delay's mix is assigned to modifier: extern1
so you'd not be able to alter that parm's settings without going into the modifier

the only reason I can think of that the clean tones may be quiet is that I use a pretty hot guitar
and also I set the input level pretty high..
this would certainly impact the level of the cleaned tones..
to fix that without altering the level of the actual amp block or changing the amp's MV [which remember will have tonal impacts]
you could alter the min level of the volume blocks [that are under modifier control] so that you don't clean up quite so far..
if your input signal level is not that hot, then the tone should still clean up ok
 
clarky said:
I didn't global link the delay so I've no idea why the was playing up..
note though that the delay's mix is assigned to modifier: extern1
so you'd not be able to alter that parm's settings without going into the modifier

the only reason I can think of that the clean tones may be quiet is that I use a pretty hot guitar
and also I set the input level pretty high..
this would certainly impact the level of the cleaned tones..
to fix that without altering the level of the actual amp block or changing the amp's MV [which remember will have tonal impacts]
you could alter the min level of the volume blocks [that are under modifier control] so that you don't clean up quite so far..
if your input signal level is not that hot, then the tone should still clean up ok
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will mess with those.

This sure is FUN!
 
clarky said:
Fin - have you ever tried tone morphing morphing yourself... like from scratch??
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I have not. I am trying to learn the modifier settings in your patches and some others to figure it out.
This is a great learning tool for me.....dissecting your patch helps me learn. Now if I can just stop playing your patch and dive into the settings a bit more..... Lol
 
if you want... I could take you through the steps of building a preset like that from scratch...
then you'll get to make all the changes for yourself
you'll grow it little by little and because you'll be adding each layer of functionality yourself it'll make more sense...
more importantly, you'll get to hear for yourself and therefore get a better grasp as to why certain decisions are made

EDIT: if anyone else wants to join in with this just shout...
we can do this collectively
 
clarky said:
if you want... I could take you through the steps of building a preset like that from scratch...
then you'll get to make all the changes for yourself...if anyone else wants to join in with this just shout...
we can do this collectively
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Superb idea, Clarky.
 
ok... so here goes....

we'll keep this one simple... just to get the fundamentals across...
if this proves to be fun maybe we can try something more difficult later...

task number 1
find an amp and cab that you adore
and create your riffing tone
for now.. no other fx... just one and and one cab..
 
I'M all in on this one.......any particular amp and cab sound good for starters?????? I have some ideas but would like to hear
others first as mine are too predictable... simple.
 
clarky said:
task number 1
find an amp and cab that you adore
and create your riffing tone
for now.. no other fx... just one and and one cab..
Click to expand...
Dialed in a nice, chewy ODS100 with the Ownhammer Bogner beta freebie cab. Sounds nice at bedroom levels; tweaking at volume is for another day (or not...most of the time I have available to experiment is when the family is asleep, so maybe I'll keep it dialed in low.
 
awesome....
and in the interests of sporting good fun...
I'm going to go find a single amp and cab too..
then I'll follow exactly the same steps as you guys - we'll all do this together..

I'm thinking to try an amp that is a bit of a departure from my stock first 'go to' amps...
so for Clarky, Deizels and 5150's are out of bounds...

my criteria though is to find amp that has good tones at high-ish gain, moderate gain and low2no gain
so I'll pick an amp, try to find a nice hot tone...
then, via parms that are controllable [without actually assigning them at this point] see if I can calm it to a good riff tone..
maybe by shutting off the boost switch, or backing off the input-trim, or something like that...
and then back off the drive and input-trim to see what it's like 'cleaned up'

time to search, noodle, and generally have experimental fun...
 
clarky said:
I'm thinking to try an amp that is a bit of a departure from my stock first 'go to' amps...

my criteria though is to find amp that has good tones at high-ish gain, moderate gain and low2no gain
so I'll pick an amp, try to find a nice hot tone...
then, via parms that are controllable [without actually assigning them at this point] see if I can calm it to a good riff tone..
Click to expand...
Not quite what you're used to, but the ODS-100 (Drive at 4.60, Master at 4.09) has a rich almost-clean tone when played lightly. Spank it, and there's a bit of a roar there. Might be worth a go.
 
I've been messing with the Brit Silver.. liking that one a lot..
and the JVM's too...
I'm liking the HBE and the ODS-100

I reckon I'm suffering with 'way too much choice syndrome'.. lmao
 
Yah, love the JVM here. That one has a great crackle to it. Notes sound like they are on fire. It doesn't seem to clean up to well. That would probably be my choice if it did.

Really loving the Plexi and it cleans up wonderfully !!!!
 
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