Preamp Models in Amp Block

Shahar

Shahar

Experienced
I have a question regarding rack preamp models (Triaxis, Bogner Fish, Marshall JMP-1, CAE 3+, etc.), how do they model the amp side if there is no amp for these units. Should they be modeled as Drive Blocks? Should they have modeled popular rack power amp units, like Mesa 2:90, VHT 2150, Fryette, Peavey 50/50, etc.

Is this why some popular preamps haven’t been modeled yet (ADA MP1, Sansamp PSA-1, Peavey Rockmaster, etc.), because you have to marry them to an amp?
 
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Following this thread because I think it's interesting. I expect the answer will probably be less interesting than your intent. As I understand it, power amp sections of amps are relatively flat. That is to say, the power amp is usually pretty uninteresting. Amp manufacturers use preamp and post-power-amp equalization for tone shaping. Looking forward to someone correcting my assumptions here.
 
kypen said:
Following this thread because I think it's interesting. I expect the answer will probably be less interesting than your intent. As I understand it, power amp sections of amps are relatively flat. That is to say, the power amp is usually pretty uninteresting. Amp manufacturers use preamp and post-power-amp equalization for tone shaping. Looking forward to someone correcting my assumptions here.
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I think amps have a bigger impact on the tone, some are British voiced (EL34), some American (6L6). I believe that’s why Cliff and crew are updating things such as SIC, thump, etc.
 
Shahar said:
What deems them appropriate? Being from the same company (Mesa w/ Mesa, Marshall w/ Marshall, etc.)?
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Cliff decides. It's actually not known exactly what they are paired with, but a fair assumption is exactly what you said. Triaxis with Mesa 2:90, the Soldano preamps with a SLO100 power section etc. I think the CAE 3+SE is paired with a Mesa 2:90 too.
 
kypen said:
As I understand it, power amp sections of amps are relatively flat. That is to say, the power amp is usually pretty uninteresting.
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Tube power amps are very susceptible to the speaker cab’s impedance curve, and their breakup characteristics are complex. In short, they’re quite interesting. A plexi without a tube power amp would sound and feel pretty crass.

kypen said:
Amp manufacturers use preamp and post-power-amp equalization for tone shaping.
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In a real amp, any post-power-amp EQ circuits would be destroyed by the amp’s power.
 
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kypen said:
That is to say, the power amp is usually pretty uninteresting. Amp manufacturers use preamp and post-power-amp equalization for tone shaping. Looking forward to someone correcting my assumptions here.
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The reason why people are still using tube power amps is about their compression and distortion, things that you can't see on eq curves, you also can't tonematch that and if you could, you'd take a digital amp with an eq.
But it is far from simple.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Cliff decides. It's actually not known exactly what they are paired with, but a fair assumption is exactly what you said. Triaxis with Mesa 2:90, the Soldano preamps with a SLO100 power section etc. I think the CAE 3+SE is paired with a Mesa 2:90 too.
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I think Cliff said he modelled the Tri Axis with a VHT...? I'm fairly certain it was not the 2:90.
 
TSJMajesty said:
I think Cliff said he modelled the Tri Axis with a VHT...? I'm fairly certain it was not the 2:90.
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I checked Yeks Amp Guide, and found:
1. Bogner Fish is paired with Bogner Ecstasy (Euro model) power section
2. Marshall JMP-1 is paired with “Typical Marshall 100W from the 90s” I’m assuming Marshall EL34 50/50 bridged.
3. Mesa Triaxis is paired with Mesa Mark IV power section
4. Solo 88 is paired with Soldano SLO-100 power section
5. CAE 3+ is paired with UNKNOWN (WTF?)

All that being said, wouldn’t it be nice to choose your own power section? And possibly add ADA MP1 (hey, they said Klon would never come), Sansamp PSA-1, and Peavey Rockmaster?

COMING SOON TO AN UPDATE NEAR YOU!!!
 
Shahar said:
All that being said, wouldn’t it be nice to choose your own power section?
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Would be nice indeed to have a pre on / off button and some common cleanish p.a. selections like Mesa 2:90, but unlikely as I understand it, due apparantly, to some risk of IP exposure if pre / p.a. are "separable" (common in amp modelling, but would be a big win imo, for any brand that could overcome whatever the security hurdle is, and provide those type p.a. options - discussed several times in the past - most recently here )
 
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Shahar said:
I checked Yeks Amp Guide, and found:
1. Bogner Fish is paired with Bogner Ecstasy (Euro model) power section
2. Marshall JMP-1 is paired with “Typical Marshall 100W from the 90s” I’m assuming Marshall EL34 50/50 bridged.
3. Mesa Triaxis is paired with Mesa Mark IV power section
4. Solo 88 is paired with Soldano SLO-100 power section
5. CAE 3+ is paired with UNKNOWN (WTF?)

All that being said, wouldn’t it be nice to choose your own power section? And possibly add ADA MP1 (hey, they said Klon would never come), Sansamp PSA-1, and Peavey Rockmaster?

COMING SOON TO AN UPDATE NEAR YOU!!!
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I believe, if my memory serves me correctly, that in the later 90's Marshall had two power amps a 9100 50/50 and a 9200 100/100. I owned the 9200 for a while....man was it heavy! These used 5881 tubes because at the time there was an EL34 shortage going on. There was an earlier model I think it was named the 9000 series that probably had EL34's. The EL34 50/50 came out at a later date after the EL34 shortage was over, maybe late 90's to early 2000's.
I suspect that the "Typical Marshall 100W from the 90's" would be a JCM 900.
 
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