Power Conditioner yes or no?

O

olli666

Member
Hi,

I'm using a 1U Furman power conditioner in my 4U Rack w/ a 1U poweramp and an Axe-Fx II. I want to go back to my Engl 840/50. Therefore I have to disclaim for the furman. I'm living in germany, I think the electricity network is very stable. I play 25 gigs a year. Electricity always has been delivered from a regular "power outlet", no current generators. Do I need the furman or not?

Regards,
Oliver
 
A power conditioner is an insurance policy. Lots of people chose to be under or not insured and get away with it. I'm never that lucky.

As side note many people incorrectly assume their Furman is a power conditioner when in fact their particular unit is simply a surge protector power strip in rack mount form.
 
Hi,

thanx for the answers so far. When does a PC makes sense? Is there a special case/circumstance?

Regards,
Oliver
 
When the electricity surges and takes out your amp and you wish you had used one to make the cheaper sacrifice. I always use one. Been down that road before. Especially important for gigging guys. You never know the condition of the wiring, breakers and polarity of the places you play at. A bad breaker took my tubes out. Lucky it didn't take out the trannies. Vintage tubes, too. Cost more to replace the tubes then buy a power conditioner. The tubes were much harder to find as well.

Roger
 
A power conditioner always makes sense. Think of it like locking your front door. How often would someone come along to try and enter even if it were not locked? Hopefully not often. If you are unlocked on that one time someone does try it, you'll likely lose something you care about. In the Axe Fx scenario, your presets you spent time refining. I have over 100 custom presets that have taken me at minimum 500 hours to create, I not only use a power conditioner to protect them but I bought a spare Axe II I store them on as a secondary precaution beyond Axe Manage.
 
olli666 said:
When does a PC makes sense? Is there a special case/circumstance?
Click to expand...
When equipment is designed defectively (ie by cost controls).

Anything a Furman does must already be done better inside electronic power supplies. Does not matter how 'clean' that AC power is. A power supply first converts power to high voltage radio wave spikes. And then 'cleans' that much 'diriter' power. The 'cleanest' power from the best conditioner is first converted to 'dirtiest' power before superior 'conditioning' circuits inside electronics 'clean' power better.

Power conditioning is most for equipment with inferior power supplies. Supplies that are missing essential functions. Is often touted by hearsay to do things even the manufacturers does not claim.

Some power conditioners do more. Others sell at a same price to do less. The only place they cannot lie is in the manufacture numeric specifications. Any honest answer always references those numbers. Less reliable recommendations hype brand names rather than spec numbers.

Most failures are due to manufacturing defects. Defects that can result in failure months or years later. Many then only blame what advertising hypes - 'dirty' power. Power rarely cause hardware damage. Few learn why failures occur. A power conditioner solves little. Typically only does what is already inside the power supply - or less. And sells at extreme profits.

If a power conditioner does something useful, then the recommendation defines each anomaly with numbers. Then says how that power conditioner averts hardware damage from that anomaly. A short list of anomalies to solve: frequency variation, power factor, noise, EMC/EMI, harmonics, floating neutral, voltage variation, current leakage, floating ground, sags, or blackouts. A power conditioner recommendation says, with numbers, why each is harmful. And then cites the power conditioner spec number that claims a solutoin.

Good luck. Many who recommend power conditioners do not even know what those anomalies are. Just know from advertising that power must be 'cleaned'. Useful answers cite manufacturer spec numbers for each anomaly.
 
Westcom's post is on target..

The AX uses a switching power supply, and that operates as discussed above. The AC line voltage is rectified and the resultant DC voltage is used to drive small high frequency transformers that generate the low voltages used by the AX. As a result, the frequency and voltage level really is not critical.

Having said that, if you had some huge spike hit this power supply input, that might damage the first part of the circuit. Normal power supplies are designed with some protection.

A cheap Furman 'surge arrestor strip' will aid in reducing the impact IF such a surge occurs. (and I use one with my AX)

A true AC regulator is expensive and generally heavy... Sequenced strips are a good idea... (I just shut off the power to the powered speakers last and then first).
 
I use a Power Conditioner to go from my main wall socket to Axe FX 2, I have my iMac, Interface and Hard Drive. It stops lots of things but i still get the pops from my small beer fridge, but thats it.

It is worth it, the plug was about £30 from Maplin (Electrical Store in the UK).

Live/in the studio i dont need it as i dont get any other interference.
 
I lost all of my presets numerous times in the late 80s through the early 90s. You want me to believe my Eventide, multiple Lexicons and Rocktron units were all defective and went caput simultaneously on five seperate occasions? After I learned of a power conditioner and used it I never had a failure afterward, I suppose that's simply a coincidence.

Fwiw it was always a brown out not a surge that caused my problems. The club AC would turn on and draw down the rest of the grid.
 
voltage regulation, different than power conditioning, can be very important. Much like Luke, I've had experiences in clubs where under voltage causes some really good gear to act very strange. And if you've done enough party boat cruises, especially on some of those old metal vessels, you've also probably experienced some weirdness due to the nature of the electricity produced on the ship. A few hundred $$$ for voltage regulation is good insurance IMO.
 
I live dangerously I suppose. I've never had any issues in my 30 plus years. I've run several recording studios with limited protection, even in my area known for brown outs. I have surge protector strips and two Monster conditioners for the studios now, but nothing for my guitar rig.
 
I don't think I learn much from statements like "if you buy a electronic thing for 200 $/£ don't you wanna protect it for 50-100 $/£, since it is more expensive to buy new tubes or the man hours to recreat the presets (you forgot to backup?)" And such and such.

I would like an answer from Fractal Audio. Is the unit fragile and should be protected, and if so by what?
 
claham: I don't have much professional or practical information for you, claham, but I do not believe your question really has anything to do with Fractal. I could be wrong, but I don't think it has anything to do with the Axe being fragile. It's simply a concern for any electronic device, from our Axes to our computers. You protect it to a level you are comfortable with or not at all and run the risk. If your Axe got fried by playing in a poorly wired venue, it would not be because the unit was fragile.

Brett
 
For what it's worth, I find myself agreeing with Luke again. I use to have TERRIBLE problems with spontaneous reboots of my FX gear (not my Marshall, naturally) because of under voltage (105 volts) in a rehearsal hall, and on live gigs with questionable power, The solution: bite the financial bullet - but a true voltage regulator. They are not cheap (~$450), but they are worth it, and you'll see a shutdown before you see a brown out. Likewise, if your rig starts drawing excessive power because of a short (>15amps), the unit will also shutdown. Many 'power conditioners', especially cheap power strips, will commit suicide _1 TIME_ if they see a spike or an over voltage. After that, you're exposed. Would I buy a Furman? Depends... I have never bought one of their 'power conditioners' - not a waste of time/$$, but it doesn't do what I need it to do. I have a Furman AR-1215 that does true regulation with a variable tap transformer.

Is it worth it? Well - a $450 device... protecting a $2500 device, repeatedly, seems like a good investment to me.

Pete
 
luke said:
A power conditioner always makes sense. Think of it like locking your front door. How often would someone come along to try and enter even if it were not locked? Hopefully not often. If you are unlocked on that one time someone does try it, you'll likely lose something you care about.
Click to expand...
Serious flaw in the logic here, Luke. It's likely that your AxeFX would get stolen. But if you bought a power conditioner, then you'd lose that as well!
 
It's also a convenience factor. Depending on your rack setup, it's easier than using a regular power strip if you have multiple things plugged in within the rack that can stay connected. Many have a front outlet for convenient access, and many also have lights. Even a cheaper one that's just a "conditioner" and not truly a voltage regulator (more $$$ and weight) is still probably a better than average power strip, so when you add the convenience factors a cheaper one can make some sense.
 
Posted previous:
westom said:
If a power conditioner does something useful, then the recommendation defines each anomaly with numbers. Then says how that power conditioner averts hardware damage from that anomaly. A short list of anomalies to solve: frequency variation, power factor, noise, EMC/EMI, harmonics, floating neutral, voltage variation, current leakage, floating ground, sags, or blackouts. A power conditioner recommendation says, with numbers, why each is harmful. And then cites the power conditioner spec number that claims a solutoin.
Click to expand...
Somehow a power conditioner is recommended for low voltage. Why? Did the manufacturer define voltage regulation - with a number? Voltage regulation for severe variations typically means a UPS or something equivalent; not a line conditioner.

Electronics must work normal even on low voltage - ie when an incadescent bulb dims to 50% intensity. If it fails on 105 volts, then it was defective when purchased. Other anomalies require other solutions. No power conditioner is for all anomalies. It means reading manufacturer spec numbers.

Most anomalies should be made irrelevant by how electronics were designed. 105 volts should never cause any 120 volt electronics to fail.
 
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