Wish Power-Amp-Only Block!

M

Mizerama

New Member
Okay, so I've got an AX8. It's great because it's form factor is small and it does everything I want it to do... except for one thing:

I currently Output to my recording interface and the FX Loop hooks into my ENGL 840/50 tube power amp.

This kind of forces me to choose between the two, in a way.

I can either leave Power Amp emulation on so it feeds the proper tone to the front of house, or I can disable the emulation and use it like a preamp for my tube amp, but NOT BOTH.

I realize the full on Axe FX II allows two different amp chains, but it is overkill in every other way for my purposes and the form factor of the AX8 is just amazing...

This whole issue could be resolved with a Power Amp block... all it really has to do is emulate some sag and I believe that isn't particularly resource intensive.

Ultimately, this would simply be allowing you to choose WHERE the power amp is in the chain... not just fixed to the Amp block.

The chain would be something like this:

Amp with Sag off -> Effects -> Power amp block -> Cabinet Sim -> Output
-> Fx Loop -> Power Amp -> Real Cabinet​

Pleaseeeeee implement this change! It would spectacularly improve the versatility of the AX8 without a significant cost to its design! No more monitoring a "miked up" signal, you can use the real deal AND get a beautiful FOH mix!
 
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Never going to happen. Cliff has stated so much. Too much proprietary stuff going on internally between the virtual preamp and power amp that could be reverse engineered.
 
Matt_B_77 said:
Never going to happen. Cliff has stated so much. Too much proprietary stuff going on internally between the virtual preamp and power amp that could be reverse engineered.
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Damn, really?

I mean, I guess it's his deal and he can do whatever he wants but...

I'm entirely certain if someone had the ability to reverse engineer the power amp's interaction, they would also have the knowledge to reverse engineer the full amp block or any portion of the entire unit... I'm certain he would be aware of that fact?
 
Mizerama said:
Damn, really?

I mean, I guess it's his deal and he can do whatever he wants but...

I'm entirely certain if someone had the ability to reverse engineer the power amp's interaction, they would also have the knowledge to reverse engineer the full amp block or any portion of the entire unit... I'm certain he would be aware of that fact?
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Here's a solution that doesn't require a separate block:

Within Amp block -> Disable power amp emulation for FX Loop and have it send a "dry" signal out of the chain, kind of like an output mapping. Like some sort of parallel output.

There has to be a way that doesn't compromise the solution and the Quantum black box, it just requires some thoughtfulness...
 
Here's a diagram.

Currently, the amp block seems to "output" at least 3 L/R signals at once.

The power amp "effect" likely happens after the preamp is calculated in an additive approach... while I'm certain there is some back and forth in simulating the effect when it is enabled, the preamp signal seems to exist on its own since you can fully disable the power amp and well, it still exists.

The proposal is that you can select a "line" that the dry signal gets sent to... a number or symbol would appear upon that line to designate that it is receiving the dry signal. This solution should not require recalculation or additional resources, in theory and should satisfy anyone who wants a dry preamp signal. You'd have to recopy your effects chain and possibly run out of resources, but you should be able to get several pedals on there if you aren't using High Quality Reverb on both sides...


6eIdt
 
zenaxe said:
The Tube Preamp model is suited for this. Lookup the wiki and the @yek guides. Oh wait never mind you're posting an AX8 wish in the wrong forum. :mad:
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12ax7 instead of EL34 or 6L6etc? Are you saying the preamp tubes sound the same as the power amp tubes?
 
Ah, he's right. I'm new to the forums so I didn't realize there were separate sections. I'll repost.

BTW, the Tube Preamp model with dials at midnight is perfectly neutral, so it can be used to only provide the tube sag (this would be like, if you were using an external preamp and feeding it into the Axe FX).
 
Mizerama said:
Ah, he's right. I'm new to the forums so I didn't realize there were separate sections. I'll repost.

BTW, the Tube Preamp model with dials at midnight is perfectly neutral, so it can be used to only provide the tube sag (this would be like, if you were using an external preamp and feeding it into the Axe FX).
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Thanks for moving the thread, mods!
 
I wish we could change the poweramp modeling, like Mesa MK II C + into JCM 800 power like Puppets was done or a Modified JCM 800 into a Mesa power amp etc
 
Rex said:
Ask your ears. :)
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Please don't play games. If it really does not do something, don't try to suggest it does.
I highly doubt these are the kind of answers given to U2 and Metallica? Everything has limitations. I realize that. Knowing what these boundaries are would be much more helpful when trying to solve a problem. If the solution is simply to stop trying to make the AxeFx work in a way it can't be used, don't cloud the issue.
 
vinnyburns said:
Please don't play games. If it really does not do something, don't try to suggest it does.
I highly doubt these are the kind of answers given to U2 and Metallica? Everything has limitations. I realize that. Knowing what these boundaries are would be much more helpful when trying to solve a problem. If the solution is simply to stop trying to make the AxeFx work in a way it can't be used, don't cloud the issue.
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Sorry I offended you. That wasn't my intention. In retrospect, a blunt answer to your question may have been better, though it might also have needlessly closed a door on your tone journey.

I wasn't playing games. The point is that people get hung up on whether A is exactly the same as B. I made a suggestion that you try changing the tonestack. It would take only a few seconds to make the change and decide either "Yeah, that's the vibe I was going for," or "Nope. Try again." And that's all about your ears, not mine. And it's not about pinpoint accuracy. It's about making the most of the tools available.
 
Rex said:
Sorry I offended you. That wasn't my intention. In retrospect, a blunt answer to your question may have been better, though it might also have needlessly closed a door on your tone journey.

I wasn't playing games. The point is that people get hung up on whether A is exactly the same as B. I made a suggestion that you try changing the tonestack. It would take only a few seconds to make the change and decide either "Yeah, that's the vibe I was going for," or "Nope. Try again." And that's all about your ears, not mine. And it's not about pinpoint accuracy. It's about making the most of the tools available.
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Not offended at all Rex. No problem at all. Honestly. :)
In my case, I have been trying to match a particular chain of gear I do own but in vain. It's of material I already recorded years ago. I have the masters and I wanted that sound again but in an easier form. Matching the poweramp in my case is all I need or wanted. Tried the tube preamp and it's not doing it.
I have realised that it's not actually possible to do and the actual real life preamp I was trying to use although already modelled in the AxeFx, does not sound the same as the real thing. My idea was to use the real preamp, use the AxeFx for noisegate, volume block, then into a modelled/tone matched Mesa 295 power amp, into a black back cab block and straight into the daw. I was just trying to avoid mic'ing up. Wasted a week now and got nowhere.
Not knocking the Fractal way. Completely happy with my Fractal live sounds. Just frustrating there is no way to get a boogie 295 block inside the AxeFx as others in th8s thread are frustrated they can't model other aspects of different power amps. :)
Anyway, thanks for replying. Really appreciate it. I know you are always helpful on here.
 
vinnyburns said:
Not offended at all Rex. No problem at all. Honestly. :)
In my case, I have been trying to match a particular chain of gear I do own but in vain. It's of material I already recorded years ago. I have the masters and I wanted that sound again but in an easier form. Matching the poweramp in my case is all I need or wanted. Tried the tube preamp and it's not doing it.
I have realised that it's not actually possible to do and the actual real life preamp I was trying to use although already modelled in the AxeFx, does not sound the same as the real thing. My idea was to use the real preamp, use the AxeFx for noisegate, volume block, then into a modelled/tone matched Mesa 295 power amp, into a black back cab block and straight into the daw. I was just trying to avoid mic'ing up. Wasted a week now and got nowhere.
Not knocking the Fractal way. Completely happy with my Fractal live sounds. Just frustrating there is no way to get a boogie 295 block inside the AxeFx as others in th8s thread are frustrated they can't model other aspects of different power amps. :)
Anyway, thanks for replying. Really appreciate it. I know you are always helpful on here.
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Your are welcome :)
 
Have you found anything that gets you closer to what you're looking for?
 
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