Plugins vs Fractal

kvik said:
Proceed as follows (using Reaper, but I'm sure you can do the equivalent in anything better than Windows Sound Recorder):
  1. Create a Guitar DI track and set it to get input on In 1 L, i.e. from the Fractal Input 1 port,
  2. Turn off Record Monitoring so you don't hear the DI while recording takes,
  3. Set up a decent tone that you can use to record your take(s) and record to Guitar DI track,
  4. Once you have the DI takes set:
    • Setup - Input Config - Input 1 - Source to USB (Channels 3/4),
    • Change this back to Input 1 every time you want to record a new take
  5. This will rewire the Fractal so it will feed your In 1 block from the USB instead of the physical Input 1. I'm on FM3 so this seems to be the only option but I have a hunch that on FM9 or Axe you can instead use In 2 block or something else for the same purpose and not have to lose the regular In 1 function for the duration of reamping,
  6. Now add a Hardware Send to the Guitar DI track and set it to OUT 3, which will corespond to In 1 block as we configured it in step 4 above,
  7. Also configure the send to Pre-Fader (Post FX) and lower the track's main fader so you don't hear the DI while playing back the track,
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You are totally right , this is much better than using the looper. I have tried this and it definitely works, BUT, I use my FM9 as part of my streaming setup 3 times per week (the routing is kinda complex, but all monitored directly through the FM9 headphones, so no added latency from the interface). And using this method would mean every time I want to record something (which is often enough) I would have to re-wire my setup, reconfigure my VM settings then do it again come stream-time. For a lot of people this wouldn't be an issue, but I am very much a "set and forget" guy. Once I have my main setup configured, I just want to sit down and play when it's time to play.
That sounds suspicous. You should perhaps look into it because AFAIK the FM9 should perform as good or better than anything else you might have tried latency wise.
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It's a complex issue. A lot of people on here say they don't notice ANY latency at all. Others bring up the "stand x meters from your speaker and its the same as x latency" argument. But if that was the case here, as I'm using headphones with both, I would assume the latency would feel the same on both (or less on the fractal if it is better/faster than everything else). I assume plugins have the best latency simply because they have much more processing power behind them/the ability to alter your buffer size to be as low as possible.
I think it's manageable for the most part, but it really starts to become an issue on higher bpm stuff.
It's more than possible that I just have no idea what I'm doing. But the issue is the same even on the "professional" tones that I bought just to try and see what others are doing. I've found that most of the "secret sauce" elements that I like to use for a crisp metal tone, are the things that add extra latency on the FM9 and I've found no real way around it. If I use a pre compressor and a post multiband comp, its too much already even before thinking of adding a drive.

I debated upgrading to the daddy Axe-Fx3, but a) I couldn't be CERTAIN that I'm going to get exactly what I want, and b) for that price I think I'd rather just buy a 5150 and a Torpedo Captor X and use the FM9 in the effects loop, get the best of both worlds, great effects and the lowest possible latency. Overkill I know, but since the day I switched to fractal 2 years back, it's the one issue I find that I just can't get past. Makes the guitar SOUND great, but makes me sound sloppier than I already am.

Also, nice playing!
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Cheers dude! Started an Yngwie cover, then realised I couldn't play like Yngwie so had to simplify him haha

As I said, theres a good chance that I've not done something right, if someone thinks they can help me out, I'm happy to post presets/fm9Edit screenshots of settings (Will start a new thread so as not to hijack this one, sorry Mods/Admins x )
 
MetalLizardJesus said:
I also find that I get less latency with plugins, my ONLY bugbear with my FM9 is the latency, I love everything else about it.
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Using the FM9 as your interface and monitoring from it should have no perceptible latency.

If you monitor the guitar you're playing thru the DAW then yes you'll have latency, as expected.
 
unix-guy said:
Using the FM9 as your interface and monitoring from it should have no perceptible latency.

If you monitor the guitar you're playing thru the DAW then yes you'll have latency, as expected.
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"but all monitored directly through the FM9 headphones, so no added latency from the interface"
 
MetalLizardJesus said:
"but all monitored directly through the FM9 headphones, so no added latency from the interface"
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I was addressing your comment that you said you perceived more latency using the FM9 than a plugin.

If you're doing something else for whatever reason, that's obviously your choice. We all have to do what works best personally.
 
unix-guy said:
I was addressing your comment that you said you perceived more latency using the FM9 than a plugin.

If you're doing something else for whatever reason, that's obviously your choice. We all have to do what works best personally.
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No you read the first post and ASSUMED I was monitoring my FM9 through the interface, which, if you would have read the 2nd post, you would know not to be the case. Thanks for the valuable input though.
 
unix-guy said:
To be honest, I just missed that as your post was quite long.

No need to be rude to people who are trying to offer help.
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In all fairness, it didn't come across like you were offering help. Your original comment assumed I was doing something that I clearly pointed out I was not, and came across as condescending. My apologies if that wasn't your intent, but that's how it read.
 
I'm not sure. Here in the states we'd talk directly to Fractal Support, but if G66 is the authorized dealer/service provider where you live, then yeah. Might be worth emailing Fractal Support anyways to see what they say.
 
You could try measuring the latency yourself. There are plugins out there that will measure the roundtrip latency across a transmission line using a special impulse that can survive certain amount of mangling / processing meaning you could likely measure the impact of certain blocks on cleanish settings (of course not time based effects). You just need to set up the cable from your interface's output to the Fractal unit input, and then unit output back into the interface. However, that measurement will include the latency of the interface itself and whatever processing in your PC so make sure to also measure without the Fractal and subtract. You could also use a signal generator and an oscilloscope probing the input and output and measuring the phase difference between them, but I assume most don't have those laying around...
 
With no better things to do I decided to run some very unscientific measurements on my FM3 Turbo using the RTL Utility.

I made only minimal efforts to control the testing environment so there are many possible unaccounted variables in these, which combined with extremely low sample counts, my limited understanding of the modeled blocks and devices and parameters which might influence latency, plus back of the envelope calculations makes them as good as useless. Therefore, please don't take these as accurate in any sort of way.

That being said, I believe the figures pretty much match what was reported by Fractal somewhere on the forum and 3 ms latency with several stacked latency inducing blocks is much better than anything I could ever hope to achieve with plugins doing the same.

Amp latency is 1 ms (±0.2 ms) for the three amps I tested, Drive also 1 ms (± 0.3 ms) for the three drives. Comp block doesn't seem to introduce any latency at all. Cab block is tricky because the latency depends on the initial silence of the IR, which seems to be zero with factory IRs but varies with DynaCab mic placement and of course also the manually added distance if any. Adding different types of (High Quality) preamp modelling to the Cab block adds 0.5 ms or so depending on the type. Surprisingly, adding Economy modelling doesn't seem to add any latency.
 
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kvik said:
Adding different types of (High Quality) preamp modelling to the Cab block adds 0.5 ms or so depending on the type.
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Surprising result indeed.
Can you please test if anything changes when you enable compression in rhe amp block (last tab)?
Sometimes I feel like there's some kind of latency introduced when adding it. Like the attack suddenly becomes delayed for the lack of better description.
 
Chromatizm said:
Surprising result indeed.
Can you please test if anything changes when you enable compression in rhe amp block (last tab)?
Sometimes I feel like there's some kind of latency introduced when adding it. Like the attack suddenly becomes delayed for the lack of better description.
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It seems to add a tiny amount (several microseconds) of latency, which is more likely a measurement error.
 
MLJ (as he's known on Twitch/YouTube) is a good mate of mine, he's the real deal, solid guy, I really do feel for the guy as It was me who suggested he try a Fractal unit, let's get this guys latency issue sorted guys, guys not got a bad bone in his body, and is a stellar player!
 
Chromatizm said:
Surprising result indeed.
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Not really surprising, high quality basically enables oversampling which always results in added latency.
In fact the only blocks that introduce latency are the ones that use oversampling (and/or run on a different CPU core).
 
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