Pinch harmonics with medium gain type amps?

The technique I use is to play with the round side of the pick, not the pointed side. Then I cinch up really close to the string and let the string pop off the pick and strike a tad of flesh to give the harmonic. I move my picking hand closer/further from the bridge to find the sweet spot for whatever fret position I'm playing at.

For the tone you are describing, IMO, it's the physical interaction of the guitar and speakers + the harmonic.

My sample recording was done using headphones.

Take the same patch and crank it up on the monitors and the PH will ring forever. It's the SPL causing the guitar / strings to resonate that gives those harmonics their soar. Then in post apply a 4:1 compressor to add just a little lift to the harmonic tail.

Richard
 
Yeah, I think your right about the speaker resonance. I've noticed that too. I also follow much of the same technique except for using the rounded part of the pick. I can see how that would help though.

I've been checking out using the compressor and it helps also. Its definitely gonna be a little of everything. I'm not a big fan of lots of compression, so I try to use as little as possible. Its still useful though.

I think I found the patch the guy is using in Guitar Rig. Its titled "Jeff at Ronnie's - MC" in the GR4 library. It sounds pretty spot on and I'm getting great PH with it, so there must be some hope with my playing:razz

I see the patch uses Marshall amp sims so I'll start there for sure...
 
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Stadanko said:
I'm getting a lot of "Its all about your playing" responses and that may be. Its not what I'm asking, and I realize I may have phrased things the wrong way.

Trust me, I'm taking my hands into account. I think I've made it clear enough. In fact, I typed practice,practice,practice myself in one post VegasGuitar. Its easy enough to tell me to go practice and play lots. Its also a waste of time. If you can do it, then show us. Post a clip.
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I can and do do it, but it is from 30+ years of playing. I don't own a video camera, and have no interest in making recordings. I do it only for personal enjoyment - for fun, but I do know from experience there are no shortcuts, which is what you seem to want. No guitar, pick, string, amp combo will allow you to what what you won't spend time learning to do properly. There is no EVH (or your other idol) in a bottle. Good luck, you are going to need it!
 
whatever dude...I'm done trying to make my point with you.

To anyone else who reads this. I'm not trying to turn this into a debate. Just looking for any advantage or an opportunity to straight up learn about what the Axe can do. I don't fully get all of the advanced parameters and sometimes wonder if I may be helping or hurting myself.

I definitely saw some advantage with the compression techniques discussed. I'm not completely lost, just trying to make the most of things.


To those of you who feel that I'm coping out, don't bother with me.
 
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Im just going with what I know from personal experience, and its that you can pinch on any setting. I used to think a lot of mids were best but have found they really scream out when I turn my bass up a little, and have mids around 11:00 and treble maybe 11:30. Gain I keep around 8:30, fairly low
 
Cool, I'll definitely look in that eq direction. I find that I get PH at any level with the presence and sustain degrading as gain drops.

I Also can hear the PH from my own guitar. I'm sure this is why you can hear it through an amp at any level.

Though I can hear the PH from my unplugged guitar, I can't make them as loud as the notes themselves. If that's the real trick, I don't know how I'm gonna overcome that....cause I've been playing a long time.
 
Stadanko said:
Cool, I'll definitely look in that eq direction. I find that I get PH at any level with the presence and sustain degrading as gain drops.

I Also can hear the PH from my own guitar. I'm sure this is why you can hear it through an amp at any level.

Though I can hear the PH from my unplugged guitar, I can't make them as loud as the notes themselves. If that's the real trick, I don't know how I'm gonna overcome that....cause I've been playing a long time.
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Thats gotta have something to do with the EQ then. Try raising the master and make sure your I/O is set correctly but old strings can very well place a giant effect on this.
 
Good idea on the strings. The one thing I am seeing is that my real amp (ENGL Sovereign 100) is giving me much better PH response as opposed to my Axe patches. I can definitely hear my own flaws, but I expect to keep working on playing skill always.


I'm guessing that raising the masters adds to the natural compression effect. I/O is good, no problem there.
 
So here is what I've gleaned so far and what makes sense to sum up:

1. Make sure you can play a Pinched Harmonic. DERRRR....but true!
2. Use of Natural and Added compression. Compression helps with low PH volumes. In my case, I hear PH at lower than note volumes unplugged, so it would seem that compression helps bring that up more level with played notes. High gain has more compression by nature and design from what I've learned over the years. You can all see where I'm going with that. It makes PH easier to hear and sustain.
3. Loudness and speaker resonance bring it out as well as eq. I deduce from this that strings react to the vibes around them and certain frequencies are sympathetic to each other. This also increases amplitude and sustain but in a different way.
4. setup and string condition. That one makes sense just because. I do try to keep my stuff well maintained.

All good stuff!

So since compression and resonance are the 2 biggest things people seem to know with regard to the amp, what do the more advanced controls do to affect this?

I'm not completely without ideas just trying to focus things a bit. Some controls are straight forward like dynamics and speaker resonance. But what about things like grid modeling and Xformer match?
what might they do in terms of overall dynamics especially in a multi variable capacity? I'm not just sitting back waiting for an answer, but I do get lost and lonely sometimes..and I get motivated when things get more social.
 
Stadanko said:
Good idea on the strings. The one thing I am seeing is that my real amp (ENGL Sovereign 100) is giving me much better PH response as opposed to my Axe patches. I can definitely hear my own flaws, but I expect to keep working on playing skill always.


I'm guessing that raising the masters adds to the natural compression effect. I/O is good, no problem there.
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Alismonitos (Full song) by Nellings6 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free I have some pinches in there and were all from my axe. The axe does take time to tweak, I'll admit that but just keep working with it and learn to trust your ears. Well the master just makes it more tube-like when raised to its preferred limit (FAS Modern usually around 7, 6160 around 3 or 4) the Dynamics raised can give it a more compressed sound. Cab/mic placement I have found best to be stacking amps, and tweaking with the high and low cut to get rid of fizz or muddy-ness
 
Cool track! I'm getting good PH with gain levels like that for sure. I'll post some clips soon to be more specific.

I can post my latest version of my patch since this thread won't get moved anyway.

View attachment 10017


I'm just starting to mess with amp Y brit 800 mod. Its nowhere near dialed. I love the x amp das metal though the gain is too high.

oh yeah I forgot to post my IR files....View attachment 10021 View attachment 10020 using Scott Peterson's cab technique. It works good...
 
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Stadanko said:
I find that I get PH at any level with the presence and sustain degrading as gain drops.
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That's pretty much how it works. The more gain (in the form of amp gain or sustain), the more the pinch harmonics will stand out.


Stadanko said:
I Also can hear the PH from my own guitar. I'm sure this is why you can hear it through an amp at any level.
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You're abolutely right.


Stadanko said:
Though I can hear the PH from my unplugged guitar, I can't make them as loud as the notes themselves.
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Unplugged pinch harmonics never will be as loud as the notes themselves; the pinch limits how far the string can vibrate. That's why gain helps them stand out.


The bottom line: there are only two things that will reliably strengthen pinch harmonics: gain and technique.
 
Thanks for the reply Rex,

Its funny, I've always had the same outlook on PH. As a result, I play higher gain when I want more of that overtone and PH goodness. Then I came across this video that made me want to tone down the gain a bit and so went the PH. Not entirely, just not high gain.

Yeah I practiced and sharpened up a bit. Regardless, the lower the gain the more loss. If you notice in the video, he doesn't do any PH with that tone.

If you listen to a song like "Comfortably Numb", you hear a good amount of gain and compression.

I wanted to test the boundaries cause I've been set in my ways for awhile. Also, I'm getting better results from my analog gear and I know I am far from understanding the Axe.

Secretly, I was hoping some Cliff like character would chime in and explain the Axe in greater detail:lol

I'm already in the ball park, so I'll figure it out.
 
Stadanko said:
Also, I'm getting better results from my analog gear and I know I am far from understanding the Axe.
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Do you mean you're getting better pinch harmonics from your analog gear than from the Axe-FX, or that your learning has improved the results with your analog gear?

Stadanko said:
I'm already in the ball park, so I'll figure it out.
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Please keep us posted. You might find you have something to teach me.
 
At the moment I'm getting better results from my analog gear than the Axe. I always did. My Engl just has that certain something. I'm just running the amp by itself with the built in reverb and its all there. Its big and fat and well, analog...

What I've learned from this thread gave subtle improvements. Nothing major, but what people said here definitely clicked for me in terms of processing. And yes, brushing up on technique has helped everything across the board, both Axe and analog! I must say, I'm starting to get sick of hearing myself:shock...Can you say, "Over kill!"

Squeal! Squeal! Squeal, goes the guitar!...not very musical after awhile. Har Har
 
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One thing that often happens when people play the Axe-FX is that they don't use as much volume as they do with their analog gear. It sounds so darn good at lower levels that they don't crank it as loud. But there's always something you give up when you knock the volume down. One of those things is acoustic feedback from your speaker to your guitar. That's a form of gain, and it affects pinch harmonics.
 
Yeah, that was said earlier and I'm inclined to agree. The thing I'm loving about the Axe is that i can play for hours without ear fatigue. That was killing me with my analog gear... Sounds awesome and...I'm going def.
 
nellings6 said:
...but have found they really scream out when I turn my bass up a little,
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Just recently noticed this (upping the Bass effect on PH). I'll check it out to confirm but if its true it's a great tip.

I totally get the point of this thread. There are certain patches or setups where Pinches just seem way easier then on other equally gained patches/setups - independent of technique.
 
Yeah, I've made some progress and boosting the bass has definitely helped. I'm holding off posting some clips/presets until I get it polished up a bit.

i just got the new guitar wine red classic custom and its beautiful!:twisted

I have to admit its a little more dark and bottom heavy than my 2003 gold top. I spent the day tweaking on it so I got side tracked on the blues patch:mrgreen


I will pull this all together soon and post results...
 
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Hi Stadanko,

could you please repost the IR file links - they seem to be broken..

Btw. your patches were exactly what I was missing in my patch setup, thank you very much! :)
 
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