Piezo woes

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
My guitar is fitted with a pretty decent piezo system - GraphTech GHOST LB63 bridge and Acousti-Phonic preamp. It works fine but for the life of me I can't make it sound good through my Ultra. I've tried adding PEQs and acoustic IRs to make it sound more realistic (it sounds better without these blocks), I've messed with compression and so on but I just can't get the body and response I know a good piezo system is capable of. By way of reference, I recently played a Musicman JP6 piezo through an AER acoustic amp and it absolutely slayed. Short of buying this exact system (I don't much like the JP6 in other respects) is there anything more I should know about getting a good (read "reasonably realistic with good body and attack") piezo sound with the Axe-FX? Should I just resort to buying an outboard preamp like the AER? I have an LR Baggs Para-Acoustic DI box. Will this help?
 
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Do you have access to the AER amp to try your guitar / GHOST through it? Or maybe some other amp you can compare too?

I would try to eliminate variables like that first.

I don't have the GHOST system, but I was able to make several different piezo pickups sound great through my Ultra. Passive piezo's (with a DI) and active UST's. (Sold my Ultra and in waiting for the II).

I didn't use any IR's though. Just tube pre, EQ, reverb and delay.

Richard
 
Tube pre, maybe a little reverb, and some EQ are all I've needed with Piezos and the Axe-FX in the past. You might try the Mama Bear IRs though as they're supposed to be pretty special.

Have you used that guitar through something else and been happy with the way it sounded? If so, what was it using and how was it configured?

D
 
Nah, I have no other amps or equipment except my RCF monitor. It's a good one. I figure if it doesn't sound good through that it's not going to. Interestingly, you guys both use the Tube Pre? I haven't tried that yet.
 
You can try the tube pre, but I'm skeptical that is your issue based on your description.

I can get my piezo guitars in the ball park even direct into a Kustom-12" $50US powered wedge.

The tube pre and reverb etc. of the Ultra I consider more sweetening.

I will say the PEQ *is* pretty key for me though.

My experience with piezo pickups in general is there is a high frequency in there, sometimes called the "quack" that I try to dial out with a very narrow PEQ steep notch.

And second, I put some body back in, with a very judicious bump with a broad Q in the low mid region. Start at 125hz.

Richard
 
hey.

I got the same system.
can't say it slays - I'll keep micing acoustics, but maybe you'll hear something you like.
 

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Some add the Tube Pre for some warmth (you can put it in a parallel row and add to taste).

I keep my Piezo preset quite "pure". Guitar in front input (rear will do too), PEQ or GEQ, and reverb.
 
barhrecords said:
You can try the tube pre, but I'm skeptical that is your issue based on your description.

I can get my piezo guitars in the ball park even direct into a Kustom-12" $50US powered wedge.

The tube pre and reverb etc. of the Ultra I consider more sweetening.

I will say the PEQ *is* pretty key for me though.

My experience with piezo pickups in general is there is a high frequency in there, sometimes called the "quack" that I try to dial out with a very narrow PEQ steep notch.

And second, I put some body back in, with a very judicious bump with a broad Q in the low mid region. Start at 125hz.

Richard
Click to expand...
Thanks. What's the frequency I ought to notch out? Do you remove any extreme highs or lows?
 
I have a Graphtech Ghost system on my Les Paul. I get the best results going Tube Pre model into one of the acoustic IRs. Just one or the other has never been enough for me, but together I get fantastic results.
 
shemihazazel said:
I have a Graphtech Ghost system on my Les Paul. I get the best results going Tube Pre model into one of the acoustic IRs. Just one or the other has never been enough for me, but together I get fantastic results.
Click to expand...
Which IR are you using? Any chance you could upload it here?
 
Stringtheorist said:
Thanks. What's the frequency I ought to notch out? Do you remove any extreme highs or lows?
Click to expand...

For the quack notch, I recommend using a boost to "find" the offending frequency then change to a cut to eliminate it.

1. Setthe Q very narrow.
2. Set the gain for a big +boost.
3. Sweep the frequency starting at around 1K and go up.
4. When you get to the an annoying harsh ice pick, go a little past it and see if it gets better.
5. Go back and forth with the frequency until you narrow in on the "bad" frequency.
6. Then change the gain boost to a gain cut :)

Richard
 
Also, FWIW,

With a piezo system, I would start with all shunts. If that is terrible from the get go, check your cable, pickup, pickup adjustment, string gauge, string type, if the piezo system has a preamp check the batteries, power supply, etc.

In other words, start by getting the raw guitar the very very best you can before doing a single processing step on the Ultra.

Then proceed with just the Tube Pre, and PEQ to taste and finish with reverb and delay and compression.

Richard
 
What everyone is saying is on target. I'm a little concerned though with some of your comments. If you just have a patch of shunts, does it sound good? If not, then something may be wrong with the guitar, piezo, or monitor setup.

I use the tube pre because it adds a touch of compression and a nice frequency response. If you have some quack, then you'll want to notch it out with the PEQ.

If it sounds bad on it's own though, it's really difficult to get a good acoustic sound no matter how much processing you add. I've salvaged a few really bad cases, but the results are nowhere near as good as they can be when you're working with a good source signal.

D
 
dk_ace said:
What everyone is saying is on target. I'm a little concerned though with some of your comments. If you just have a patch of shunts, does it sound good? If not, then something may be wrong with the guitar, piezo, or monitor setup.

I use the tube pre because it adds a touch of compression and a nice frequency response. If you have some quack, then you'll want to notch it out with the PEQ.

If it sounds bad on it's own though, it's really difficult to get a good acoustic sound no matter how much processing you add. I've salvaged a few really bad cases, but the results are nowhere near as good as they can be when you're working with a good source signal.

D
Click to expand...

the ghost system is pretty good, actually.
 
yek said:
Some add the Tube Pre for some warmth (you can put it in a parallel row and add to taste).

I keep my Piezo preset quite "pure". Guitar in front input (rear will do too), PEQ or GEQ, and reverb.
Click to expand...

right.
I used the tube pre as a habit (same with bass patches) but acoustic guitar & bass (other than the Ampeg vibe) some much clearer and defined without amp sim.

also my ghost system has a BIG bump @ 50Hz, which I take care of with the first block.
 
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