Pickups Database idea

Vitor Mancini

Vitor Mancini

Inspired
I was thinking about creating a database full of dry/direct signals from our guitars so we could tonematch the pickups to get even more accurate tones.
In my other thread (http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-recordings/93655-toneclone-john-petrucci-1-fw17-00-cab-pack-7-a.html) I got really close (or maybe spot on as you guys are saying) to some Joh Petrucci tones. The one I came closer was recorded with the same guitar I own (EBMM JP6 Mystic Dream) with the same pickups, and this really makes the difference. The other song was recorded with his new Majesty loaded with his signature pickups, which are very different than mine.

So I was wondering if we could create a big database that we could use to tonematch pickups and get even closer tones!
I could update the post with the new additions you guys post so it would be very organized, I think this could help a lot!

If you guys approve the idea, I'll start the thread and create some "rules" to record the direct signal, so we can make the tonematch as good as possible!

What do you guys think about it?
 
If you include a "how to" in that thread so that people like me who never done anything like that don't spend a lot of time and then find out I did something wrong,

:)

I would certainly help with that! If I have a working method I could tone match all of my pickups ..
 
I like the idea. However, won't having the tone shaped by one's up pickup negate, or rather, color the original tone match? I guess unless one has very very neutral pickups..
 
kevinerror said:
+1 for this. I'd love a tonematch of some of the Bareknuckle stuff.
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The idea is to have a database of dry guitar recordings (the direct in recordings)..
Then you can tonematch the dry signal (this will tonematch the direct signal, giving you the pickup tone) and you can export it as a user cab, place it in front of everything else in the chain and do another tonematch if you want to!
 
I don't have a need for it. I'm not on a quest for an exact copy of an existing tone, like a sample, or profile. Never have been either. But I know there are many who do want that. So I wish you all the luck.
 
yek said:
I don't have a need for it. I'm not on a quest for an exact copy of an existing tone, like a sample, or profile. Never have been either. But I know there are many who do want that. So I wish you all the luck.
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Me neither, I have my own "signature tones" hahaha
But it's helps a lot when recording covers and split screens, and shows off the capabilities of this amazing black box!
 
If it can make my bad-sounding neck pickup sound good then I am definitely interested (I hope the solution is really that simple! - something tells me its not). I too don't really care if I am matching someone elses tone exactly, I just want to EQ out whatever it is that I don't like about my physical pickup. It would be really interesting if we get enough dry signals in the database, because then I can start to understand what frequencies need to be cut or boosted.

One other thing - pickups all have different output levels. It would be cool to work out where they are relative to one another so that in addition to the EQ, you can apply the appropriate volume boost or cut. That way, if you play a modern guitar and are trying to match a vintage pickup, you won't be overdriving the amp sim in an unrealistic way.
 
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You could change patches when you switch pickups. Or bypass the tone match. Or maybe you'll get lucky, and the TM will sound good with the other pickup.
 
Sounds like a cool idea. I've got some BKP Rebel Yells and Lollar Imperials I'll try to get around to making a dry sample of, same for a set of BKP Juggernaut 7's that're on the way.

I think this could be especially useful for situations where, say, you want a single coil tone, but don't want to switch guitars.
 
Rotti said:
I think this could be especially useful for situations where, say, you want a single coil tone, but don't want to switch guitars.
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Making a humbucker sound like a single-coil (and vice-versa) won't work perfectly. A humbucker is really two pickups working together. Each one picks up different phases at different frequencies, and you can't duplicate that with a tone match.
 
What you won't be able to capture is the responsiveness, microphonics, and other subtle nuance of different pickups. How they react to pick attack, decay, etc.
A PAF style pickup wound with Plain Enamel insulation has a slower attack and a smoother decay due to the enamel insulation and its release of electrons. This is in large part responsible for the "bloom" people talk about. The initial attack sags just a bit.

A modern pickup using a Polysol insulation releases its electrons quicker, so to speak, thus a quicker pick attack, almost no note bloom or sag. Decay is a little harsher sounding due to a slightly higher frequency peak.

So, even if you tone match a pickup, the responsiveness and complexity is still going to be that of the pickups in your own guitar.
 
Womac911 said:
What you won't be able to capture is the responsiveness, microphonics, and other subtle nuance of different pickups. How they react to pick attack, decay, etc.
A PAF style pickup wound with Plain Enamel insulation has a slower attack and a smoother decay due to the enamel insulation and its release of electrons. This is in large part responsible for the "bloom" people talk about. The initial attack sags just a bit.

A modern pickup using a Polysol insulation releases its electrons quicker, so to speak, thus a quicker pick attack, almost no note bloom or sag. Decay is a little harsher sounding due to a slightly higher frequency peak.

So, even if you tone match a pickup, the responsiveness and complexity is still going to be that of the pickups in your own guitar.
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Yup, this. No way can you make a low output, microphonic pickup suddenly sound like a high gain monster just by sticking some eq on it, which is all a tone match block is really as I understand it. It can't possibly have any effect on the electrical response.

Don't just take it from us, watch someone clearly obsessed with his sound talk about pickups - 1 min 20 seconds - it's not just the tone, it's the response. He talks about it again around 7 min 50.
He's totally right, I have a guitar with these pickups and they do just what he describes.

min 20 seconds.
 
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Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think anyone here expects a TM block matched to pups to sound or feel exactly like swapping out your stock "Duncan designed" for a BKP or whatev. It's an EQ. A very precise EQ. Still an EQ. I think we can all move forward in the conversation now.
 
Rotti said:
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think anyone here expects a TM block matched to pups to sound or feel exactly like swapping out your stock "Duncan designed" for a BKP or whatev.
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Some of the previous comments here did give me that impression personally. Maybe just me though :)
 
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