Pick attack noise

[cloudsplitter]

Red Bear Picks are da bomb......I won't use anything but...they are so smooth and sound great...but you're going to pay for it....!!

 

[Demolition Man]

Then I guess Eric Johnson really WAS wrong about his tone and technique that contributes to his very fluid sound with minimal pick noise, right? And all the others as well? :?

Dude, I really am a nice guy on this forum about 99% of the time and I am certain the members would agree. And I wouldn't have even said that line at the top except that you (at this moment) have 3 posts on this forum and every one of them equals you finding some opportunity to bash at the Axe-FX or its users claiming that it is/they are lacking in something. I actually have to tip my hat for your debate technique with being able to turn the attention of this thread from pick attack noise to the Axe-FX's distortion sounding like a pedal. Wow. Then you are going to say "snooty retorts" before anyone has said anything.

Not that I know this for sure, but your forum behavior makes it hard for me to believe you are some mature person working in a studio, because 3 posts of this nature paint a picture of a 14-year old looking to start trouble. There's my snooty retort.

 

[plexi59]

It sure as heck does have to do with the pick and technique. I use Ultex picks PRECISELY because they produce a more pleasant attack noise. And I can make them produce more or less of this noise depending on how I hold them.

 

[chris beaver]

This has nothing to do with the pick or technique..it has to do with compression.

I hear this at least a couple times a week in the studio and its one of the least things understood by guitar players.

All you have to do is look at the waveform to see what is happening. Its the same effect as a kickdrum. There will be a big front to the wave and much lower body following it. It is almost always caused by a compression or Distortion pedal in front.

In almost every distorted clip I hear of the Axe I say---that sounds like a distortion pedal in front. Now, whether everyone is using some type of drive in front or this is inherent in the coding is not known..but its so obvious to me. I have yet to hear a saggy low E string--which is the tell tale sound of tube distortion. I told someone that the reason why many Axe users say its actually better than a real amp is they dont like the sound of real amps..they like that pedal sound. I obviously expect snooty retorts to this but its painfully obvious.

If you want to remedy this on an already recorded track, as I have to in the studio, you need to hit the track with a compressor with the fastest attack. This will chop off the click portion of the wave much in the same way you make a kick drum more pillowy instead of just a pop or click sound. It emphasizes the body of the note instead of the attack.

So again this has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with technique or EQ. Eddie van Halen hit his strings harder and more obnoxious than anyone and he never got a poppy attack from his amp. Its about compression

i disagree with this, while you have a point about compression relating to pick attack transience, btw it certainly will emphasize it not reduce it we are not talking about volume spikes that need limiting here, the picking technique and the material the pick is made from and where you hit the stings also plays a huge part, i find the axe fx every bit as responsive as the tube heads i own in this area. also the op isn't complaining about the pick noise, he simply wants to know how he could best minimise that sound for certain applications.personally Ive never liked the pick attack noise for most things be it from my amp or my ultra but that's just my odd taste and not a problem with the axe fx itself.

it can be dialed out on the axe if desired. looking at the raw wavs i write there are no spikes on the start of playing notes or chords but if i changed my picking style there would be. there's many factors at work here its a 50/50 with technique and setting up the amp right with the right cab and even backing off with the tone control, BTW i hear the pick attack very loud on evh music which is not necessarily a bad thing but kinda goes against what you said
i don't think the op is talking about volume spikes its more how to minimize the pick sound

 

[javajunkie]

This has nothing to do with the pick or technique..it has to do with compression.

I hear this at least a couple times a week in the studio and its one of the least things understood by guitar players.

All you have to do is look at the waveform to see what is happening. Its the same effect as a kickdrum. There will be a big front to the wave and much lower body following it. It is almost always caused by a compression or Distortion pedal in front.

In almost every distorted clip I hear of the Axe I say---that sounds like a distortion pedal in front. Now, whether everyone is using some type of drive in front or this is inherent in the coding is not known..but its so obvious to me. I have yet to hear a saggy low E string--which is the tell tale sound of tube distortion. I told someone that the reason why many Axe users say its actually better than a real amp is they dont like the sound of real amps..they like that pedal sound. I obviously expect snooty retorts to this but its painfully obvious.

If you want to remedy this on an already recorded track, as I have to in the studio, you need to hit the track with a compressor with the fastest attack. This will chop off the click portion of the wave much in the same way you make a kick drum more pillowy instead of just a pop or click sound. It emphasizes the body of the note instead of the attack.

So again this has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with technique or EQ. Eddie van Halen hit his strings harder and more obnoxious than anyone and he never got a poppy attack from his amp. Its about compression

You don't need to do that in the axe-fx. There is already a parameter for it. It is called sag:

SAG - This controls how dynamic the power amp simulation behaves. Higher settings simulate higher power supply impedance and thus more droop in the tube plate voltages which leads to a more compressed feel.
This control interacts with the Master Volume control in that at low Master Volume settings this control will have little effect as the power amp is not being pushed. As the power amp is pushed and draws more virtual current from its virtual power supply the Sag control will have more effect.

along w/ B+ capacitance:

B+ CAPACITANCE - This control allows you to alter the amount of filtering capacitance on the power amp virtual power supply. Higher values will make the response stiffer and “faster”. Lower values will give a looser feel. Use along with the SAG control to fine-tune the response.

But this, along with compression, was discussed in the first few posts.

That being said, the type of pick has a definite effect on how prominent the pick attack is (just like the type of beater does on a kick). Play with a felt pick, note the attack. Now, play with a coin. Big difference.

Heck even playing with a different side of the same pick will have an effect. It all adds up.

You are talking about fixing it afterwords with compression. Others are talking about preventing before it happens.

 

[cloudsplitter]

Another thing to note about picks is the lame ones you get at the guitar store..(you know, the ones with the stores name on them) or other cheap picks have very sharp edges because both edges are beveled on both 'sides". These sharp edges tend to "hook" on the windings of the strings causing that shrill pick noise. Picks like the ones I use from Red Bear are pre beveled correctly so the pick edge glides over the string smoothly and therefore cuts down on that grating sound...

 

[jerotas]

Not sure if anyone else said this, but on many amp models I put the low pass filter WAYYYYY down on my TS-808 drive pedal in front of the amp. Then I use a PARA Eq to add some high end back in. I find a lot of the high gain amp models are too harsh, even without bright mode turned on. I like a lot of "crunch" in my hi-gain patches, but not harshness. Try it!

 

[jerotas]

The pick I would highly recommend as it is the smoothes best sounding pick I have ever heard is from Red Bear Trading Co. it is the N- 9n. These are hand made and don't come cheap but I think you will be glad you bought one.

The Red Bear rule. Even better (but jazz-sized) as far as "smooth" goes are the agate necklace picks from picksandstones.com, and these are also not cheap.

 

[soularflair]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned experimenting with the gate settings.
I was after a Holdsworth-style legato sound, with minimal pick attack, and you can get pretty close to that using appropriate settings in the gate.
Most of that comes from messing with the the "Attack" parameter.

 

[jerotas]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned using experimenting with the gate settings.
I was after a Holdsworth-style legato sound, with minimal pick attack, and you can get pretty close to that using appropriate settings in the gate.
Most of that comes from appropriate setting of the "Attack" time parameter.

True, that will only work on the first note played for big phrases usually though. Especially on high gain applications.

 

[soularflair]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned using experimenting with the gate settings.
I was after a Holdsworth-style legato sound, with minimal pick attack, and you can get pretty close to that using appropriate settings in the gate.
Most of that comes from appropriate setting of the "Attack" time parameter.

True, that will only work on the first note played for big phrases usually though. Especially on high gain applications.

That hasn't been my experience.
With the settings I used (at work so can't recall them at the moment) it worked with most if not all picked notes.

 

[jerotas]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned using experimenting with the gate settings.
I was after a Holdsworth-style legato sound, with minimal pick attack, and you can get pretty close to that using appropriate settings in the gate.
Most of that comes from appropriate setting of the "Attack" time parameter.

True, that will only work on the first note played for big phrases usually though. Especially on high gain applications.

That hasn't been my experience.
With the settings I used (at work so can't recall them at the moment) it worked with most if not all picked notes.

Maybe you could record a clip? Interested in what this sounds like.

 

[Rinkleton]

I don't like the advice of changing your pick or your technique for people who have developed their playing style around a real amp and are now using the Axe FX. Changing your technique can have other side effects (maybe some good, maybe some bad). If the modeler you're using really is that accurate, you'll be able to tweak it to make it sound like the real thing.

Another thing to consider is other differences between the two setups you're using for comparison. If you're comparing how an amp in the room sound vs how playing the Axe FX through headphones sounds, you're not really comparing apples to apples. It may be from the brightness and response of a certain IR. So just consider the possibility that the pick attack was always there, you may just have not heard it because of the setup.

 

[Admin M@]

@Rinkleton ... SO much has changed since 2010 when this thread was written that the opinions and positions of people earlier on probably don't reflect their views anymore. Therefore, I am sending zombie thread back to the grave and inviting you to open a new discussion if you'd like to talk about pick attack.