Pick attack noise

[Dinkledorf]

Anybody have any suggestions on how to best minimize pick attack with the Axe-Fx? Frankly, I have not played through an amp in many years and I find the Axe to really pronounce pick attack. Sounds great in some applications but for other, a more subtle attack volume is warranted.

 

[shemihazazel]

Put a parametic EQ either before or after your amp block (experiment), and use the high-shelf to cut the desired ammount of attack. Or, if you want to get more precise, set the high band of the EQ to peaking, make the Q as narrow as possible, cut the gain substantially, and sweep the frequency until you find the spot where your pick noise is cut the most. Then adjust the gain reduction to taste. Just remember that in both cases, the notes themselves will have their frequencies cut in the same range as they ring out, unless you do something fancier like attatch an envelope controller to the EQ gain so that it's brought back up after the note is played.

 

[DJD100]

Adjust the Sag and B+ Capacitance controls to adjust the Power Amp's Sim's feel.

As for the pick transient's sound, I find this area to be troublesome for all modelers to some degree (vs real tubes), and in the Axe's case upping the Amp Block's Damp control can help minimize the noise quotient (if the amp in question defaults to a lower setting). Also, IMO if you hit the PA Sim too hard with the Amp Block Master you can accentuate this sound, so I try to be conservative when hitting the PA Sim (though I use a custom tube stage post Amp Block which makes this easier to accomplish while retaining some grit etc).

Finally, compressor(s) post and/or pre the Amp Block can have a dramatic impact as well.

A beauty of the Axe is that there are so many ways to accomplish things!

Anybody have any suggestions on how to best minimize pick attack with the Axe-Fx? Frankly, I have not played through an amp in many years and I find the Axe to really pronounce pick attack. Sounds great in some applications but for other, a more subtle attack volume is warranted.

 

[chris beaver]

hi Walt, Ive was trying to achieve this for a long long time as its always been the core of my tone, it was the only thing i couldn't get right without unwanted side effects.i finally got my perfect tone last week which has minimal pick attack and retains total clarity. the key for me was a combination of 2 things.. the obvious one (advanced amp parameters) using damp, sag, warmth and depth. dialing the bright cap to 0.10 and a ir mix using rw. the ir mix was just as important as the amp settings i just couldn't achieve it using the stock axe ir,s. ill email you the patch i made its very close to my carvin legacy tonally, fat, rich. but sounds even better than my amp.

I'm curious in hearing how others have achieved this also as it took me a long time to get right. other than the fernandes sustainer the axe fx is the best bit of guitar kit Ive ever owned, it still blows me away every day which is more than my wife does :lol:

 

[Scott Peterson]

Change your pick.

 

[dk_ace]

Change your pick.

+ 1

Or change your pick attack.

I have found the Axe-FX just as revealing as a miced amp when it comes to hearing pick technique and the artifacts that can create. It is a lot more pronounced than listening to a guitar cabinet off axis, but that's not really an issue worth pursuing as the audience is going to hear the pick pick noise even if you don't.

You could try to cover it up with EQ and stuff, but it's a much better solution to change your pick and/or correct your technique.

D

 

[sprint]

Change your pick.

Hi - Just wondering what type of pick you would suggest for a soft attack. Sometimes I like to play octaves in standard tuning which requires strumming accross a muted string. A softer attach helps this a lot in terms of getting a better tone. I can improve my octave strumming tone with technique practice but I wondered if a different pick might make the tone even better where the pick crossing the muted string does not make any sound at all.

 

[cloudsplitter]

The pick I would highly recommend as it is the smoothes best sounding pick I have ever heard is from Red Bear Trading Co. it is the N- 9n. These are hand made and don't come cheap but I think you will be glad you bought one.

 

[senseix]

You could also change the way you pick, different angles will give you different results. When i want less pick attack, i normally use a thin pick.

 

[DNW]

Change your pick.

Yep, this and your actual technique. Some picks produce a lot more of an attack sound than others. The red Jazz IIIs for example I've found are good for cutting down pick attack, and if you combine that (or some other appropriate pick) with changing your pick attack, you can really cut down. If your picking technique involves using too much of the pick, rather than just the bare minimum, the additional surface area of the pick that you're dragging across the strings every time is going to add to the noise. Especially if you're using something like Tortex picks, which aren't exactly the smoothest picks around. As has been said, the angle also makes a difference.

 

[axel]

Try using your global EQ (or other) to attenuate frequencies around 4khz-8khz.

 

[Enzo Sutera]

Change your pick.

or use the round side of the pick..
and sometimes no pick at all but fingers is good too

 

[Dinkledorf]

Thank you for the responses guys, I really appreciate it.

Chris, definitely looking forward to that patch, I find your overall tone to be up in the amazing scale!

I use V-Picks, specifically the Screamer. I came from Dunlop Stubby's (2 and 3mm) and have been using thick picks for a long time. I cannot use nor have I ever liked thin picks. The Screamer is pretty thick (seems to be about 3-4mm) but is very sharp.

Will give these suggestion a try and see where that leads.

Thanks again!

 

[dk_ace]

Thank you for the responses guys, I really appreciate it.

Chris, definitely looking forward to that patch, I find your overall tone to be up in the amazing scale!

I use V-Picks, specifically the Screamer. I came from Dunlop Stubby's (2 and 3mm) and have been using thick picks for a long time. I cannot use nor have I ever liked thin picks. The Screamer is pretty thick (seems to be about 3-4mm) but is very sharp.

Will give these suggestion a try and see where that leads.

Thanks again!

I'm not saying you shouldn't use the V-Picks, but you should know that the pick noise has been one of the criticisms of them for a long time. They have a characteristic chirp that is a little difficult to tame. There is a section on their site (or used to be) about how to minimize that with your technique.

I had more problems taming pick noise with V Picks than with other heavy picks, but that could just be me.

D

 

[too_much_power]

I use V-Picks, specifically the Screamer. I came from Dunlop Stubby's (2 and 3mm) and have been using thick picks for a long time. I cannot use nor have I ever liked thin picks. The Screamer is pretty thick (seems to be about 3-4mm) but is very sharp.

Been there, done that. Such hard picks WILL have a lot of pick attack no matter what you do, unless you use extreme eqs, gain or wetness that will determine your tone. That is, you won't be able to choose your tone, but you will have a tone imposed by your pick attack band-aids.

You say you don't like thin picks. If I were you, I would throw away or hide all the hard picks you have, and start using ONLY soft bendable ones. Of course it will be hard at first, but come back to us in 3 months and telll us .

 

[Scott Peterson]

I use V-Picks, specifically the Screamer. I came from Dunlop Stubby's (2 and 3mm) and have been using thick picks for a long time. I cannot use nor have I ever liked thin picks. The Screamer is pretty thick (seems to be about 3-4mm) but is very sharp.

Been there, done that. Such hard picks WILL have a lot of pick attack no matter what you do, unless you use extreme eqs, gain or wetness that will determine your tone. That is, you won't be able to choose your tone, but you will have a tone imposed by your pick attack band-aids.

You say you don't like thin picks. If I were you, I would throw away or hide all the hard picks you have, and start using ONLY soft bendable ones. Of course it will be hard at first, but come back to us in 3 months and telll us .

I love the bigger thicker picks like V-Picks and Red Bear Trading. I used V-Picks for years, but that 'chirp' got to me and I put them down. The Red Bear 'XH' is thinner than the HUGE V-Picks, but is not flexible and I love them... but they are insanely expensive. I just got a bunch of the Dunlop '477R208' aka "208's" (from the JazzTone family) on a recommendation of this board and they are thick, fast and have almost NO chirp at all. They are very affordable and definitely worth checking out.

http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page ... ucts/picks

Using your picks as EQ is a time honored approach that most all veteran guitarists know and use.

 

[dk_ace]

I just revisited the 208s as well and I'm pretty happy with them at the moment as well as the Ultex. I'm not settled on anything yet, but I do like both of them better than the V-Picks.

D

 

[Demolition Man]

I do wish to point out, however (in the interest of the OP), that there is still a dimension of importance with your amp and effects settings in minimizing pick attack noise. The pick definitely makes a big difference (I totally subscribe to this view), but you still can help out a lot with settings.

The great Eric Johnson (who is a big fan of minimal pick noise; this is documented in many places) has spoken before about things he does with his amp EQ and the TONE knob on his guitar to minimize pick noise. I can't off the top of my head remember specific things he's said about his amp, but he did say that he turns the tone knob on his strats down a bit to help remove pick noise. I think he knows his stuff. :mrgreen:

I, too, wish I knew more about doing this with the amp EQ and little tricks, but I'm really just trying to say, I'm there with you, bro.

But to help out one last bit, V-Picks DO make chirpy attack noises. I like how they feel and have used them for certain applications, but they make some pretty noticeable attack noise. I simply think it's the nature of the beast with the material that makes them, PLUS, Vinnie (the creator of V-Picks) talks a lot about how he likes a lot of pick attack noise because it can make your personal tone memorable. Brian May was one of his favorite players (who had a good bit of pick noise, but in a cool way) and he was trying to emulate that sound with the creation of V-Picks.

Also, Dunlop Stubbies and Big Stubbies are pretty big into pick noise as well. I don't think the cure is to get a thin pick though; thin picks can still make a lot of noise too! Paul Gilbert uses those thin, orange Tortex picks and I would say there's a fair amount of attack in his notes. You just gotta find one that works for your ear. I have been digging the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III for a long time now because it does not make a lot of noise and while it is a smaller pick, it is still pretty dang thick and basically indestructible. I have yet to really wear one down to not being useable, and I play a lot of notes. I would like to try out those JazzTone picks. They look like they'd do this great!

 

[Dinkledorf]

Great suggestions people, muchly appreciated!

As to the pick itself, I am not totally sold on V-Pick but I do like them better than anything I have ever tried before. I get hung up too easily using thin picks and every one that I ever tried was too "twangy" if that makes any sense. Additionally, I have not broken a string again since switching to hard picks.

OK this next part is not going to be well received but I make my largest comparison of pick attack noise between Axe-Fx to my previous "rig", POD XT. Like I said it has been too long since I played a real amp for me to recall what that was like and besides I am a totally different player now. I know that the Axe is significantly more sensitive than the POD. I also concede that my technique has possibly suffered as a result of using the POD.

If you guys that play or have played tube amps more recently say that the pick attack of the Axe is genuine, I accept that, however, I do feel that there is likely settings that can help me out.

Been trying a few things mentioned earlier and so far not that much luck although I have certainly not given up. I definitely notice a significant difference between various cab/mic IR combinations (I use Red Wires exclusively).

I do admit to not having tried any new picks at all since settling on the Stubby and subsequently on the V-Pick. Might be a good time to go shopping again!

Edit: Scott, I took a look at the Red Bear ones you noted (never heard of them before). Although they are expensive, they are not significantly more than the "high" end V-Picks. Might give a few a try just to see what all the fuss is about. The JD's look like they are definitely worth a try especially at their price point. Thanks!

 

[Scott Peterson]

Edit: Scott, I took a look at the Red Bear ones you noted (never heard of them before). Although they are expensive, they are not significantly more than the "high" end V-Picks. Might give a few a try just to see what all the fuss is about. The JD's look like they are definitely worth a try especially at their price point. Thanks!

Dweezil tipped me off to them; I've bought 3 of them and LOVE the Red Bear. They are my absolute 'go-to' pick of the last few months. Perfect feel, balance of bright attack without any weird chirp overtones... and they last well. They also work just as well for acoustic than electric. I LOVE mine, but man am I really obsessive about them... it's $20 a pick. :shock:

Still, $60 for three picks is helluva lot of money. I have more than a few V-Picks too, so I'm not shy about higher end picks.