Per Preset question!

Sixstring

Sixstring

Legend!
I have been playing with the idea of changing up the way I use a layout. I have been stuck using it in the standard fashion which consists of the default layout Scene/Effects/Bank with all of the effects switches running globally. My question is, is it possible to use the pre preset function to setup the effects switches differently from one preset to the next and if so is there a vid on the subject?
 
The Per-Preset function is a great feature and exactly for what you're wanting to do. I use a combination of Global switches and Per-Preset switches. The Global switches are assigned to effects and functions that I use in every preset, Per-Preset for all others.

Unlike the global switches, you will need to save any changes to the Per-Preset switches

First, there are two methods for the Per-Preset function:
1. Per-Preset Placeholder. These reserve switches for the Per-Preset function and can be assigned different effects or functions needed in different presets.
2. Per-Preset Overrides. These allow you to assign different effects or functions to a global switch.

Per-Preset Placeholders sound like what you're looking for and the way I typically use them.
To assign a switch as a Placeholder:
  • Select the switch you want to use.
  • Select 'Per-Preset' from the <Category> list.
  • Select the PP# for the switch. I started with PP# 1 and continued in order for each additional switch.

Once you have the Placeholders assigned, you're now ready to use them as you need in different presets. To assign an effect or function to a Per-Preset switch, click on <FC Per-PRST> button at the top left in FM9 Edit, click on the PP# you want to use and assign the effect or function as you would a global switch in the FC Edit page.

Per-Preset Overrides are great if there's an effect/function in one Layout that you need quicker access to in a different layout. This can be done in either the <FC Edit> or <FC Per-Prst> view.

For example, Per-Preset #5 switch controls Reverb 2 in Layout 4 but you would like it in Layout 3. In Layout 3, there's a Delay block on switch 4 that you're not going to change at any point in the song so you would add the Per-Preset Override to assign PP#5 to switch 4 in Layout 3.

To assign the Override in this scenario:
  • Select the switch you want to override
  • Click on the <PER-PRESET OVERRIDE> window
  • Select 'PP#5'

When you assign a Per-Preset Override, you will see a warning in the Functions window. This is just alerting you that the override has been assigned to the switch.

Here's a video by Rosh Roslin that goes through the process, it starts @4:40.
 
JoKeR III said:
The Per-Preset function is a great feature and exactly for what you're wanting to do. I use a combination of Global switches and Per-Preset switches. The Global switches are assigned to effects and functions that I use in every preset, Per-Preset for all others.

Unlike the global switches, you will need to save any changes to the Per-Preset switches

First, there are two methods for the Per-Preset function:
1. Per-Preset Placeholder. These reserve switches for the Per-Preset function and can be assigned different effects or functions needed in different presets.
2. Per-Preset Overrides. These allow you to assign different effects or functions to a global switch.

Per-Preset Placeholders sound like what you're looking for and the way I typically use them.
To assign a switch as a Placeholder:
  • Select the switch you want to use.
  • Select 'Per-Preset' from the <Category> list.
  • Select the PP# for the switch. I started with PP# 1 and continued in order for each additional switch.

Once you have the Placeholders assigned, you're now ready to use them as you need in different presets. To assign an effect or function to a Per-Preset switch, click on <FC Per-PRST> button at the top left in FM9 Edit, click on the PP# you want to use and assign the effect or function as you would a global switch in the FC Edit page.

Per-Preset Overrides are great if there's an effect/function in one Layout that you need quicker access to in a different layout. This can be done in either the <FC Edit> or <FC Per-Prst> view.

For example, Per-Preset #5 switch controls Reverb 2 in Layout 4 but you would like it in Layout 3. In Layout 3, there's a Delay block on switch 4 that you're not going to change at any point in the song so you would add the Per-Preset Override to assign PP#5 to switch 4 in Layout 3.

To assign the Override in this scenario:
  • Select the switch you want to override
  • Click on the <PER-PRESET OVERRIDE> window
  • Select 'PP#5'

When you assign a Per-Preset Override, you will see a warning in the Functions window. This is just alerting you that the override has been assigned to the switch.

Here's a video by Rosh Roslin that goes through the process, it starts @4:40.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and link I will give it a look through and attempt this week to see if I can open up some flexibility!

Having a bunch of different rigs for specific sounds that all have different pedal boards will be a game changer for me.
 
You totally can. I only realized recently that the 24 per preset placeholders were PER PRESET haha. I thought you had 24 total that you could freely override on a per preset basis but no… every preset gets 24 per preset placeholders which you can use to override anything on any of your Layouts.
Pretty crazy.
 
I have been wondering about it for quite a while now and was so used to doing it the way I had been I didn't want to dive into it because... well I'm too lazy maybe that's a half truth.

My time is at a premium these days and don't have much it anymore. I am seeing things differently now and really want the extra flexibility! The thought of having different effects layouts for different presets is the next level so I am going to chop out so time and get it done!
 
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I think I JUST finally got it haha

So, Per Preset is a layout in the Global menus of the FM9. That being said, if I edit any of the Per Preset switches in the Per Preset layout, that happens GLOBALLY. SO, if I leave my Per Preset Layout blank, and use Per Preset Overrides on every Per Preset Layout, THEN I’ll be utilizing it in a way where my Per Preset layout is truly customized on a Per Preset basis. Otherwise, the Per Preset Layout is just global across all Presets without using the overrides, resulting in the Per Preset Layout being constantly edited across all Presets. Am I correct in my thinking?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I think I JUST finally got it haha

So, Per Preset is a layout in the Global menus of the FM9. That being said, if I edit any of the Per Preset switches in the Per Preset layout, that happens GLOBALLY. SO, if I leave my Per Preset Layout blank, and use Per Preset Overrides on every Per Preset Layout, THEN I’ll be utilizing it in a way where my Per Preset layout is truly customized on a Per Preset basis. Otherwise, the Per Preset Layout is just global across all Presets without using the overrides, resulting in the Per Preset Layout being constantly edited across all Presets. Am I correct in my thinking?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you got it. Those are placeholders for the overrides you make. Don’t change those to something else :wink:
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I think I JUST finally got it haha

So, Per Preset is a layout in the Global menus of the FM9. That being said, if I edit any of the Per Preset switches in the Per Preset layout, that happens GLOBALLY. SO, if I leave my Per Preset Layout blank, and use Per Preset Overrides on every Per Preset Layout, THEN I’ll be utilizing it in a way where my Per Preset layout is truly customized on a Per Preset basis. Otherwise, the Per Preset Layout is just global across all Presets without using the overrides, resulting in the Per Preset Layout being constantly edited across all Presets. Am I correct in my thinking?
Click to expand...

It makes we wonder why the layout is called per preset at all (being the exact opposite) 🤔
 
Thenewexhibit said:
So, Per Preset is a layout in the Global menus of the FM9. That being said, if I edit any of the Per Preset switches in the Per Preset layout, that happens GLOBALLY. SO, if I leave my Per Preset Layout blank, and use Per Preset Overrides on every Per Preset Layout, THEN I’ll be utilizing it in a way where my Per Preset layout is truly customized on a Per Preset basis. Otherwise, the Per Preset Layout is just global across all Presets without using the overrides, resulting in the Per Preset Layout being constantly edited across all Presets. Am I correct in my thinking?
Click to expand...
Yes and no.

Yes in the fact that if you change the "Per Preset Placeholder" switch configuration to a different function, this will occur Globally. If you use the "FC Per-Preset" menu in the unit or tab in FM9 Edit, you can assign functions to the Per Preset switches without changing their 'Per Preset Placeholder' Global assignment. The FC Edit tab in FM9 Edit displays the Global switch assignments.

If you want to assign a function to a switch that is configured as Per-Preset>Placeholder in FC Edit, you must use the FC Per-Preset tab or screen to keep these switches available per preset.

No in the sense that you don't need to use 'Per Preset Overrides' to have per preset functionality of the Per Preset Placeholder. In order to use a Per Preset Override, and have it perform any function, the Per Preset Placeholder switch must be assigned to a function. Assigning a function to a Per Preset switch, then using the Per Preset Override on the same switch is somewhat redundant.

An example of how to use the Per Preset Overrides:

-In Layout 6, switch number 5 is configured to Per Preset Switch #8 which has been assigned to bypass/engage the Rotary block.
-You would like to have easier access to the Rotary block in Layout 3. The 'global' switch 1 function in Layout 3 is not going to be needed in this preset.
-Use a Per Preset Override on layout 3, switch 1 and select PP#8 from the list.

You now have control over the Rotary block in layout 3 without changing any of the switches global functions.
 
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ChristThePhone said:
It makes we wonder why the layout is called per preset at all (being the exact opposite) 🤔
Click to expand...
Pretty obvious actually, don't know what else it could be called. All of the switches are configured as Per Preset Placeholders which can be assigned to different functions Per Preset.
 
JoKeR III said:
Yes and no.

Yes in the fact that if you change the "Per Preset Placeholder" switch configuration to a different function, this will occur Globally. If you use the "FC Per-Preset" menu in the unit or tab in FM9 Edit, you can assign functions to the Per Preset switches without changing their 'Per Preset Placeholder' Global assignment. The FC Edit tab in FM9 Edit displays the Global switch assignments.

If you want to assign a function to a switch that is configured as Per-Preset>Placeholder in FC Edit, you must use the FC Per-Preset tab or screen to keep these switches available per preset.

No in the sense that you don't need to use 'Per Preset Overrides' to have per preset functionality of the Per Preset Placeholder. In order to use a Per Preset Override, and have it perform any function, the Per Preset Placeholder switch must be assigned to a function. Assigning a function to a Per Preset switch, then using the Per Preset Override on the same switch is somewhat redundant.

An example of how to use the Per Preset Overrides:

-In Layout 6, switch number 5 is configured to Per Preset Switch #8 which has been assigned to bypass/engage the Rotary block.
-You would like to have easier access to the Rotary block in Layout 3. The 'global' switch 1 function in Layout 3 is not going to be needed in this preset.
-Use a Per Preset Override on layout 3, switch 1 and select PP#8 from the list.

You now have control over the Rotary block in layout 3 without changing any of the switches global functions.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply! I’m not gonna lie; I’m gonna need to read this like 10 more times to understand all of this 😂 but, speaking in terms of the FM9 edit (or axe edit for that matter), if I edit the Per Preset place holder there on the Per Preset Layout, that will change everything globally, correct? So in that case, I would have to use a Per Preset override in FM9 edit, no?
I thought using the overrides sounded redundant, but if I remember correctly (and I’ll double check), I edited the functions on the Per Preset layout via FM9 edit, and the presets are replaced by “PP#” or something along the lines of that. So there mist be something I’m missing here.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
if I edit the Per Preset place holder there on the Per Preset Layout, that will change everything globally, correct? So in that case, I would have to use a Per Preset override in FM9 edit, no?
Click to expand...
Yes, if you edit any switch configuration in the FC Edit page, it will change it globally:

FC-Edit.png


If you change the Placeholder assignment, you won't be able to use a Per-Preset Override for that switch since it is no longer a 'Per Preset' switch.


To retain the Per-Preset Placeholder configuration, you need to use the FC Per-Prst page to assign a function to the switch in FM9 Edit.

FC-Per-Prst.png
 
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Per-Preset Override is the most flexible method to assign a switch to a block’s parameter, but it takes more work to set up.

Fractal makes it easy to add flexibility to layouts and define them for our use, and there are three ways to use layouts:
  • Global assignments, like the default “Effects” layout, are static and don’t change when presets change, only the switch status changes according to the bypass state of the blocks and whether that particular block exists in the preset. The “Presets” and “Scenes” layouts are similar, they don’t change when switching between presets, instead they reflect the preset slots in the bank or scenes in the preset but those never move to different switches.
  • The “Per-Presets” layout is global and static, but its display changes because it’s showing what per-preset assignments have been made and stored within the preset. We have to assign them and save them in the preset making more work for us, and, as we change presets the layout manager retrieves them and displays them in their assigned switch locations. It’s as if the “Effects” layout is changing dynamically with each preset and we are defining the order and location based on what we want and find convenient in that preset.
  • The layout manager also lets us assign specific per-preset definitions as overrides in the static global layouts, so any definitions can be overlaid over the global, static, switch assignments temporarily while that preset is active. That means we can access that preset’s block’s parameter’s assigned switch in any layout when we switch to that preset and are on that layout.
I tend to use the second method most. I rewired my layouts so they link to the “Per-Preset” layout instead of the “Effects” layout, and I assign per-preset definitions to the parameters I care about in the presets, and they appear on the board at the switches in the locations I defined. I also occasionally take advantage of the overrides to inject a parameter in my “Scenes” layout to allow me to turn on/off Amp or effect block parameter switches across the scenes if I want, and then they disappear if another preset doesn’t need them.

It’s powerful and takes a while to figure out but the flexibility is amazing. It’s better to see it in person because it results in a very interactive experience where it seems like the modeler is anticipating our needs. Of course it’s not, we have to tell it to do those things, but in the thick of a performance being able to reduce the tap-dancing a bit is worth the work up front.
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
Per-Preset Override is the most flexible method to assign a switch to a block’s parameter, but it takes more work to set up.

Fractal makes it easy to add flexibility to layouts and define them for our use, and there are three ways to use layouts:
  • Global assignments, like the default “Effects” layout, are static and don’t change when presets change, only the switch status changes according to the bypass state of the blocks and whether that particular block exists in the preset. The “Presets” and “Scenes” layouts are similar, they don’t change when switching between presets, instead they reflect the presets in the bank or scenes in the preset but those never move to different switches.
  • The “Per-Presets” layout is global and static, but its display changes because it’s showing what per-preset assignments have been made and stored within the preset. We have to assign them and save them in the preset making more work for us, and, as we change presets the layout manager retrieves them and displays them in their assigned switch locations. It’s as if the “Effects” layout is changing dynamically with each preset and we are defining the order and location based on what we want find convenient in that preset.
  • The layout manager also lets us assign specific per-preset definitions as overrides in the static global layouts, so any definitions can be overlaid over the global, static, switch assignments temporarily while that preset is active. That means we can access that preset’s block’s parameter’s assigned switch in any layout when we switch to that preset and are on that layout.
I tend to use the second method most. I rewired my layouts so they use the “Per-Preset” layout instead of the “Effects” layout, and I assign per-preset definitions to the parameters I care about in the presets, and they appear on the board at the switches in the locations I defined. I also occasionally take advantage of the overrides to inject a parameter in my “Scenes” layout to allow me to turn on/off Amp or effect block parameter switches across the scenes if I want, and then they disappear if another preset doesn’t need them.

It’s powerful and takes a while to figure out but the flexibility is amazing. It’s better to see it in person because it results in a very interactive experience where it seems like the modeler is anticipating our needs. Of course it’s not, we have to tell it to do those things, but in the thick of a performance being able to reduce the tap-dancing a bit is worth the work up front.
Click to expand...
Got ya! I will look into this further. I mist be doing something wrong because when I copy an existing preset to another preset and edit that, when I change something in FM9 edit, the previous per preset switch gets changed, so I must be doing something wrong/misunderstanding the way it works.

On another subject (not to derail my own thread), are you using the stock layouts? I’m considering the OFMG9 layout as I’ve heard good things, but never got into it yet.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Got ya! I will look into this further. I mist be doing something wrong because when I copy an existing preset to another preset and edit that, when I change something in FM9 edit, the previous per preset switch gets changed, so I must be doing something wrong/misunderstanding the way it works.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you are editing the Per Preset Placeholder switches in the FC Edit page, not FC Per-Preset page.

I think of the FC Edit page as the Global FC setup page; once it's configured I don't use it at all for editing switches. All of the blocks are assigned as I would lay them out on a pedalboard and won't get moved.

Thenewexhibit said:
On another subject (not to derail my own thread), are you using the stock layouts? I’m considering the OFMG9 layout as I’ve heard good things, but never got into it yet.
Click to expand...
I don't use any of the OMG layouts, I used the factory layout and had my switch configuration figured out before the Custom OMG layouts were available. My understanding is they are well thought out and likely a good way to check out different switch configurations and layout ideas. It's worth a try but remember to backup at least your FC configuration so you are able to revert back to it if you want.

Here's how my main layouts are configured for effects and other functions with the FC-6:

Layout 3:
Switch 1- Scene Toggle 1/2
Switch 3- Control Switch for Boost
Switch 6- Layout Link to Layout 4.
Switches 2, 4-5, 5-12- Blocks that are used in the majority of my presets. (Delay 1 and 2, Reverb 1 and 2, Plex Delay 1, Multi Delay 1, Comp 1).
*None of the switches in this layout ever get reconfigured when creating presets.

Layout 4:
Switch 6- Layout Link back to Layout 3
Switches 7 and 8- Control Switches 3/4 and 5/6.
Switches 1-5 and 9-12- Per-Preset Placeholders for blocks like Chorus, Flanger, Phaser or Plex Delay 2, Multidelay 2, etc... that are not used as often. *These are edited as needed per preset using the 'FC Per-Prst' page in Axe Edit.

If there is a preset that I need quicker access to a block like Phaser or Plex Delay 2 in Layout 4, I will use a Per-Preset Override to add the appropriate block to a switch in Layout 3. This becomes a temporary assignment that only works in that preset.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
On another subject (not to derail my own thread), are you using the stock layouts? I’m considering the OFMG9 layout as I’ve heard good things, but never got into it yet.
Click to expand...
I started with the stock FM3 layout, then switched to OMG9 on the FM3+FC6 combination, adapted it for my needs, then moved its concept to the FC-12 that's attached to my FX3. When I finally got the FM9 I adapted the concept to that unit again, then OFMG9 came out so I switched to it and played with it for a while, then adapted it to combine what I'd learned and updated the other two similarly.

They're all different because the switch locations and/or switch counts are different, but the underlying layouts are the same, and the use of the FC Per-Preset and Per-Preset Overrides lets the presets cross from one to the other without problems. All three modelers run my same presets; I tend to create them on the FM3, but sometimes I'll use one of the others, and move them between them all.

The FM3 is if I want something easily carried when I'm traveling, the FM9 is my usual choice, and the FX3 is to experiment with and test and occasionally take out when I want to scare the children.

These are my current FM3+FC6, FM9 and FX3+FC12 layouts… they're susceptible to being changed at any moment.
 

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So if I add a Per Preset button to add a compressor when I hit it's assigned button, but that compressor is NOT a part of my scene, where in the scene chain does it add in that compressor? And does it add it to all chains? The reason I ask is, I have Out1 as my stereo guitar out, Out 2 is my stereo vocal out, Out 3 is my DI vocal out and Out 4 is my DI guitar out. I would not want that switch affecting all "Out" blocks. I never realized we could choose stuff that is not already part of the scene, and having that extra functionality substantially increases what a preset can do, which is totally cool, but I am not quite understanding where and how that new block would be inserted and what it would affect. Seems to me that the switch does not get lit on FC12 when that block is not part of the scene/preset.
 
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