Paypal Friends and Family

It’s taking the total risk on yourself, and up to you to decide if it’s acceptable. I bought a guitar on a no-protection type payment method without an issue, but researched the seller and checked with others he’d dealt with first.

I’ve been ripped off more by friends and family than I have other musicians, so there’s that. These deals can go as-planned, but you have to be confident enough in the seller to invest your cash into his integrity. If you’re less than 100% there, walk away.

The biggest red flag to me is that it’s on ”such a good deal.” My purchase was market value on a great guitar; no screaming deal at all. Just proper pricing. Unusually low prices + no-protection payment requirement smell really scammy. Personally, I’d pass.
 
Jipps0525 said:
Appreciate this. Did your seller have perfect reviews? Can you elaborate on it having nothing to do with taxes? If you’re someone who buys and sells a lot of gear over $600, couldnt a lot of sales raise you into another tax bracket ?
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The seller had a 5-star rating with around 40 transactions. It’s only April… he’s not in danger of hitting another tax bracket unless you’re buying something that costs more than some people’s yearly salary. If he’s complaining about taxes, it probably means he’s not reporting parts of his income, which is shady for someone claiming to be a reputable seller. PayPal sends a tax form every year with a seller’s income and fees. It’s not complicated. He’s just trying to avoid paying taxes while avoiding responsibility if any issues end up happening with the sale.

Be firm. If he won’t protect you and he’s THIS worried about taxes on a single sale, I’d pass.
 
Rick said:
It’s taking the total risk on yourself, and up to you to decide if it’s acceptable. I bought a guitar on a no-protection type payment method without an issue, but researched the seller and checked with others he’d dealt with first.

I’ve been ripped off more by friends and family than I have other musicians, so there’s that. These deals can go as-planned, but you have to be confident enough in the seller to invest your cash into his integrity. If you’re less than 100% there, walk away.

The biggest red flag to me is that it’s on ”such a good deal.” My purchase was market value on a great guitar; no screaming deal at all. Just proper pricing. Unusually low prices + no-protection payment requirement smell really scammy. Personally, I’d pass.
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Good points. When you say you checked with others he'd dealt with first, did you just private message them?

And yes it is a very good deal honestly. Spoke with him on the phone and he buys and sells for fun but also needs money for medical bills. I can see how that would cause someone to be more risk averse as well.
 
York Audio said:
The seller had a 5-star rating with around 40 transactions. It’s only April… he’s not in danger of hitting another tax bracket unless you’re buying something that costs more than some people’s yearly salary. If he’s complaining about taxes, it probably means he’s not reporting parts of his income, which is shady for someone claiming to be a reputable seller. PayPal sends a tax form every year with a seller’s income and fees. It’s not complicated. He’s just trying to avoid paying taxes while avoiding responsibility if any issues end up happening with the sale.

Be firm. If he won’t protect you and he’s THIS worried about taxes on a single sale, I’d pass.
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Maybe im just confused how the whole new laws work. I understand it as this: sales over $600 end up in a 1099K by reverb or paypal, which then counts as earned income towards the seller, even though they could be not making any profit on sale or selling for a loss?
 
Jipps0525 said:
he buys and sells for fun but also needs money for medical bills
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medical bills?? - first, on about taxes, now medical bills?, with a stranger?, in a buy/sell negotiation? This screams "red flag / caution" to me, but you sound determined to find a post which provides you with a green light.

Jipps0525 said:
Because the GAS bug bites hard ! Lol
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I hear ya! Tiz often a serious affliction - can cloud judgement.
 
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sprint said:
medical bills?? first he's wining about his taxes, now medical bills? with a stranger?, in a buy/sell negotiation? This screams "red flag" to me, but you sound determined to find a post which provides you with a green light.
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This. "Medical Bills" is a standard pressure ploy when someone is trying to squeeze you on a deal.
 
I've had numerous scammers reach out to my wanted ads/post (including on this forum). It's pretty much a guaranteed no for me once I hear they'll only take PayPal F&F or etransfer. There are so many other ways to offer protection to both parties with PayPal G&S, Reverb, eBay, etc. If they're not willing to do anything to help you to the point of just expecting you to have blind faith... then it's not worth the risk.

I've entertained the idea of PayPal F&F or etransfer with doing 50% upfront and 50% when it arrives, but not one person has met my conditions for this. Once I ask for a video call and for them to show me government ID, the conversations usually end there.
 
Jipps0525 said:
Good points. When you say you checked with others he'd dealt with first, did you just private message them?

And yes it is a very good deal honestly. Spoke with him on the phone and he buys and sells for fun but also needs money for medical bills. I can see how that would cause someone to be more risk averse as well.
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As others note, medical costs are often cited in scams. With the astronomical cost of medical care, I’m sure there are some who actually do sell for this reason, but it is another of those red flags, especially tied to the combo of unusually low pricing and no protection only payment. I’d pass.
Jipps0525 said:
Maybe im just confused how the whole new laws work. I understand it as this: sales over $600 end up in a 1099K by reverb or paypal, which then counts as earned income towards the seller, even though they could be not making any profit on sale or selling for a loss?
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You can offset the income with proof of the actual number, meaning you have evidence of your basis (cost) in the transaction so you can deduct that from the sales income. The problem is that it puts you in the position of maintaining what are essentially business records on a personal sale. I’m not tax expert, but I’d imagine this has to, at least marginally, increase the odds of an audit for some. Even with your documents, that’s a time consuming pain in the backside. Accordingly, many want to avoid it altogether by doing face to face or no fee transactions, which don’t trigger this paperwork.
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
The problem is all the bad guys are proclaiming themselves good guys. It's like finding a needle in a used hay (i.e., manure) stack....
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+1 - to protect oneself, one has to be skeptical of everyone and apply protective procedures to everyone, possibly meaning a pass on some questionable transactions that might, with luck, turn out ok. Sad way to go, but waddayagonnado.
 
I just bought an Anderson guitar that I found on eBay:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ngd-anderson-2-incoming.193748/

I asked the seller who had a very high rating with feedback in the thousands if he would accept a certain price.

He countered but also commented that "there's someone on Facebook marketplace selling a similar one".

He was giving me a strong hint to find the same guitar on a platform where he could sell for less by saving fees.

I could have saved some more by using F&F, but for my personal assurance I proposed G&S and he was fine with that.

Knowing I had purchase protection thru PayPal, I felt safe buying an expensive instrument via marketplace.

I'd never buy from an unknown seller without protection on the purchase. There are far too many scammers out there.
 
unix-guy said:
I just bought an Anderson guitar that I found on eBay:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ngd-anderson-2-incoming.193748/

I asked the seller who had a very high rating with feedback in the thousands if he would accept a certain price.

He countered but also commented that "there's someone on Facebook marketplace selling a similar one".

He was giving me a strong hint to find the same guitar on a platform where he could sell for less by saving fees.

I could have saved some more by using F&F, but for my personal assurance I proposed G&S and he was fine with that.

Knowing I had purchase protection thru PayPal, I felt safe buying an expensive instrument via marketplace.

I'd never buy from an unknown seller without protection on the purchase. There are far too many scammers out there.
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Yeah I agree. I really don’t know why he won’t allow goods and services when I asked some other of their other “buyers” how they paid and so far 3 said they paid via goods and services so idk. He also has it listed for higher on reverb which offers protection so I’ll ask if he would accept that
 
Jipps0525 said:
Yeah I agree. I really don’t know why he won’t allow goods and services when I asked some other of their other “buyers” how they paid and so far 3 said they paid via goods and services so idk. He also has it listed for higher on reverb which offers protection so I’ll ask if he would accept that
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If you do F&F, please report back to us as to how the transaction went!
 
Lo & Behold, another Luke 3 popped up shortly after and the buyer accepted PayPal Goods and Services. This is my first EBMM guitar and first real “high end build” guitar. I typically use the dimarzio clip lock straps for my guitars. Any recommendations for a great strap and strap locks for this axe? Can’t be putting Wal-Mart windshield wipers on a Ferrari now ;) Havent received or played it yet, but hopefully my hands will fall in love (although I already feel myself hyping it up too much and putting on the pedestal which never ends well lmao).
 

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Jipps0525 said:
Lo & Behold, another Luke 3 popped up shortly after and the buyer accepted PayPal Goods and Services. This is my first EBMM guitar and first real “high end build” guitar. I typically use the dimarzio clip lock straps for my guitars. Any recommendations for a great strap and strap locks for this axe? Can’t be putting Wal-Mart windshield wipers on a Ferrari now ;) Havent received or played it yet, but hopefully my hands will fall in love (although I already feel myself hyping it up too much and putting on the pedestal which never ends well lmao).
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My favorite strap maker is Couch, keep coming back to them.

Great quality, last forever, good stuff.

Made in the US by humans, musicians even.

Vegan, which matters to me, but might be a negative if you lean towards luxury leather.
 
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