Passive Heatsink to replace fan?

AnotherBrick

AnotherBrick

Member
This question is best answered by the guys at Fractal, but others are free to give constructive criticism.

Would a 2U passive (fanless) heatsink be a good idea to replace the fan in my Axe-Fx II? I'd like to eliminate all moving parts to avoid future maintenance and, sure, noise too.

Perhaps something like a Cooler Master HEL-00020-N1-GP?
 
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I'm pretty sure it would work, just be sure to mount a fire extinguisher on your rack case!!! LOL!
 
OP, this may open a can of worms (this reply) and that is NOT my intent.. I doubt that Fractal can really respond to this in any way other than violating the warranty... Any manufacturer/designer would have to do this.. This is NOT a Fractal issue, just a global reality.

On the suggested approach, the heatsink you posted is really an embedded heat pipe (works by evaporating/condensing water in a wicked tube, Enthalpy is the thermodynamic term) that provides a good thermal path to the large (naturally or forced convection) heat sink radiator fins. The attachment point is likely a copper block (better heat conductivity than aluminum) that has the heat pipes attached. This type of assembly REQUIRES air flow (forced or natrually convected). The mounting holes for this heatsink are made for larger LGA1200 standard mounts... The AX has Ball Grid Array (BGA) soldered DSPs, this won't fit the mounting requirements. Look at the laptop heat transfer systems on the CoolerMaster site... that is more in the ball park of an approach (i.e. move the heat from the point source, processor.... to a larger heatsink with low profile fan). The heat pipes are really doing the work with the thin fan cooling the cold end of the heat pipe..

On the other hand, using heat pipes to the inside of the AXFXII case to transfer the head from the two DSPs would likely work. The external area of the case (or 1 side) should be OK for the 20W, however, other elements in unit (power supply, display, etc.) still may need air circulation to keep them from getting too hot (small things, not well thermally attached to allow conduction). BTW, I have considered doing a passive cooler for the AX but it is too young to violate the warranty and I use it every day...

Bottom Line... The larger fin area heatsink COULD allow a lower air flow but I'm sure it would cancel the warranty and has other issues listed above..

I certainly do NOT speak for Fractal... just a happy customer
 
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Had been thinking about that as well...
Why has the ideal(?) combination not been made?? I'd guess heat sinks would allow for a less powerful and quiet fan?
Has it been omitted for the cost of the heat sinks? :( [or do they have small heatsinks at the moment?]

I'm so unlucky to have the loud accelerating and decelerating fan variation here...
OTOH, I'm surprised how soon I stop hearing it at all when I start playing and in between presets :)
 
Was just realizing that probably nobody will want to put any pressure for a heatsink onto chips that expensive...
I'd touch them with a feather at most and will still fear transfer of electrostatic electricity :mrgreen
 
It works perfectly as long as you keep your Axefx in a meat locker. Other than that, I think you're flirting with disaster.
There have been tons of comments about fan noise over the years and my hunch is that if it were a feasible solution, Cliff would have made that a part of the Axe2 design.

Personally, I don't get the fan noise thing. I have my Axe2 in my home studio "control room". If I'm doing critical listening and I feel the Axe is bugging me, I turn it off. When I'm playing at low to moderate volumes, the fan noise isn't even noticeable.
 
People keep implying the hardware in the mk2 is some very-hot bleeding-edge hardware that is not subject to normal cooling solutions
The DSPs are in fact very very low heat output chips - lower than a typical laptop, never mind a full on PC. Does a laptop make more noise than a Mk 2?
There are lots of feasible quieter cooling options
The Axefx 2 appears to be optimised for ruggedness in live use, by sealing the case and fitting a noisy fan inside it
If it were optimised for studio use, it would probably have vents, and a quieter fan, or heatsinks on the outside like fanless MOSFET power amps

I wish my ears were not so sensitive, the fan washes everything in a sea of pink noise in my studio, so it had to go in another room, even though there's now longer cable runs and no front panel to see.
Critical listening or not, why would I want to play any instrument in a room that masks the detail in the note tails?

for amusement, please watch this video: it seems Intel CPUs survive overheating, whereas AMD CPUs burn and smoke
CPU overheat - YouTube
I don't know how tigersharcs fare, but they do work up to 85 Centigrade, which is pretty hot

Since the tigersharc is intended for normal passive heatsink cooling, or adding a fan, depending on the application (see the other thread), I think a good fanless large heatsink is very likely to be adequate. This is not a Xeon chip

btw sensitivity to fan noise is very variable between people. Not sure if sensitivity means I have tinnitus starting, or if it means that people who are not sensitive have poor hearing. Since the music industry is full of people with hearing damage, we need to be careful about trying to insist that objective truths exist about perception of fan noise. It IS subjective
 
Tone Control said:
btw sensitivity to fan noise is very variable between people. Not sure if sensitivity means I have tinnitus starting, or if it means that people who are not sensitive have poor hearing. Since the music industry is full of people with hearing damage, we need to be careful about trying to insist that objective truths exist about perception of fan noise. It IS subjective
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I'm definitely no expert, but I'd say it's not quality of hearing. It's sensitivity to certain frequencies. Do I notice the fan noise when it's real quite in the studio area. Sure. Do I think it interferes with recordings..it might, but I'm going direct so its not a factor for me.
We've all had to learn to "tune out" annoying noises, be that on TV or elsewhere. Not saying the fan noise is not an issue for some, but for others its akin to living next to an airport of train tracks.. you learn to tune out what little there is! Sensitivity to that noise level/frequency varies by person, and IMHO, is no reflection on quality of hearing. My $0.02

PS: People also have different sensitivities to things like harmonic vibration, flashing lights (strobe) and so on.
 
s0c9 said:
I'm definitely no expert, but I'd say it's not quality of hearing. It's sensitivity to certain frequencies. Do I notice the fan noise when it's real quite in the studio area. Sure. Do I think it interferes with recordings..it might, but I'm going direct so its not a factor for me.
We've all had to learn to "tune out" annoying noises, be that on TV or elsewhere. Not saying the fan noise is not an issue for some, but for others its akin to living next to an airport of train tracks.. you learn to tune out what little there is! Sensitivity to that noise level/frequency varies by person, and IMHO, is no reflection on quality of hearing. My $0.02

PS: People also have different sensitivities to things like harmonic vibration, flashing lights (strobe) and so on.
Click to expand...

I doubt it is a quality of hearing thing too.

Unluckily for me, I've always found PC fans, AC, etc impossible to ignore
Some of the overtones on my acoustic guitars are so quiet they can only be heard properly in a very quiet room
The one place I can control my environment is in my studio, why would I intentionally spend so much time and money on this, then put some road-ready noisy rack box in it, and resign myself to focus effort on ignoring the fan noise.
Seriously, with the fan on, I may as well have not bought pro monitors, I could have got some cheap hifi speakers, and I would hear the same detail.
I find it very hard to hear detail through pink noise or in busy restaurants - some guitar playing damage I suspect

Anyway, to me - fan noise in my audio musical sanctuary is an abomination! I could never ignore it, and this fan is much louder than any studio gear I've heard
 
OTOH, it also seem from the several discussions on this board that different units produce different levels of fan noise. FAS has invited some customers to return their unit for a replacement.
From this viewpoint, some of the discussions about different hearing sensitivity levels in different users might sound (pun intended) impertinent :)
 
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Tone Control said:
I doubt it is a quality of hearing thing too.

Unluckily for me, I've always found PC fans, AC, etc impossible to ignore
Some of the overtones on my acoustic guitars are so quiet they can only be heard properly in a very quiet room
The one place I can control my environment is in my studio, why would I intentionally spend so much time and money on this, then put some road-ready noisy rack box in it, and resign myself to focus effort on ignoring the fan noise.
Seriously, with the fan on, I may as well have not bought pro monitors, I could have got some cheap hifi speakers, and I would hear the same detail.
I find it very hard to hear detail through pink noise or in busy restaurants - some guitar playing damage I suspect

Anyway, to me - fan noise in my audio musical sanctuary is an abomination! I could never ignore it, and this fan is much louder than any studio gear I've heard
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Thanks for your honest and thorough description, I for one appreciate it! This has me worried, like a lot, for I am in a very similar position. I have also spent money and time trying to eliminate noise as much as I can and getting the Ultra was mainly about not having an amp running with all the hum and stuff you usually have to put up with. Now with this thing, it seems like there's going to be an issue again. Can you record the noise of your unit and post it? Like have it off, then turn it on and that way sort of give a A/B test. I'm not a computer wiz and this is no critique to Fractal, but I find it strange that there can't be a fan-less cooling system for the AFX like in laptop computers that run multiple processors, graphics cards and batteries. Maybe someone could give an answer to why the AFX needs this much cooling.
 
It's there but it's not too loud. Most of the point of it is to be direct anyhow...the only case I can see this being a burden is recording vocals or acoustic guitar in the same room...in these cases...go to a different room! Lol...
 
It's there but it's not too loud. Most of the point of it is to be direct anyhow...the only case I can see this being a burden is recording vocals or acoustic guitar in the same room...in these cases...go to a different room! Lol...
 
s0c9 said:
I'm definitely no expert, but I'd say it's not quality of hearing. It's sensitivity to certain frequencies. Do I notice the fan noise when it's real quite in the studio area. Sure. Do I think it interferes with recordings..it might, but I'm going direct so its not a factor for me.
We've all had to learn to "tune out" annoying noises, be that on TV or elsewhere. Not saying the fan noise is not an issue for some, but for others its akin to living next to an airport of train tracks.. you learn to tune out what little there is! Sensitivity to that noise level/frequency varies by person, and IMHO, is no reflection on quality of hearing. My $0.02

PS: People also have different sensitivities to things like harmonic vibration, flashing lights (strobe) and so on.
Click to expand...


Well I'd argue that it's a bit of both - the ear being taught to listen critically - as any producer would indicate, and the ear being sensitive to certain frequencies - I know my ear is.

That being said, I have both sensitive ears, and critical listening ears, and the fan noise is just a slight nuisance - nothing more.

Professional piece of equipment or not, the axe allows me to record without all the hassle of real mics - which pick up a LOT more than fan noise. I don't even have to shock mount mics like if I were recording a loud bass cab and amp - those who have done it already would know the pain of eliminating that 'handling noise' when a powerful bass amp rumbles the room.

A little fan noise for me is almost laughable when I remember the pains and expense of using real mics and amps. Thanks FAS for letting that be possible :)
 
Swedish Chef said:
Thanks for your honest and thorough description, I for one appreciate it! This has me worried, like a lot, for I am in a very similar position. I have also spent money and time trying to eliminate noise as much as I can and getting the Ultra was mainly about not having an amp running with all the hum and stuff you usually have to put up with. Now with this thing, it seems like there's going to be an issue again. Can you record the noise of your unit and post it? Like have it off, then turn it on and that way sort of give a A/B test. I'm not a computer wiz and this is no critique to Fractal, but I find it strange that there can't be a fan-less cooling system for the AFX like in laptop computers that run multiple processors, graphics cards and batteries. Maybe someone could give an answer to why the AFX needs this much cooling.
Click to expand...

somebody did this already, I'll search later and try to find the thread
The Axefx is intended for stage use I think, there is not a large amount of heat to dissipate, but it is not built to do it very quietly
 
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