Paisley/country preset - Am I hearing digital harshness?

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
Made some changes to my Paisley preset to get more definition on the low strings, but the more I play with this preset the more I notice this unpleasant harsh overtone when playing on the unwound strings. It becomes even more noticeable when applying delay or reverb to the patch. I tried tweaking all the advanced parameters, changed the model a couple of times and added a PEQ before the amp block trying to find the offending frequency but I can't dial it out. Even thought about tweaking the height of my Tele's bridge pickup but I noticed that I don't hear this harsh tone when I run straight into my amp. Can't help thinking it might be some kind of digital artifact... :(

Preset attached.
 

Attachments

  • Paisley.syx.zip
    762 bytes · Views: 56
I am pretty convinced there are no digital artifacts in the Axe-FX amp block. I've tried to create it and can't. I have been able to get a lot of nasty unpleasant noises that I've heard from tube amps. I can't load this patch for a few days at least, but I'll take a look at it when I get a chance and see if I can spot any red flags.

What amp did you use?

D
 
He uses Trainwrecks and AC30s for his recorded tones, so a Matchless is an interesting choice for the amp. I'm not saying it isn't the right one for the sound you want, it's just a completely different platform and voicing than the amps he uses. I'm not extremely familiar with the Matchless stuff, so I'm not really familiar with their response and how to set them up.

If it was me, I would stick with one amp that is really close to the one he uses for the tone you want and then work with it until you get what you're looking for. His main recording amp is his pre top boost AC30/4. The Dr. Z amps he plays on the road are pre-top boost AC30 based designs. His tone is a pretty good representation of that sound to me, meaning that it is definately Vox but without the high end harshness that can be present when you push a top boost. I don't hear anything unique about his amp tone really. It just sounds like an early pushed AC30 to me.

I think your best course of action would be to dial this in using good FRFR monitors or headphones using the cab block. Once you've virtually recreated his sound using the correct speaker IR, you can try to adjust it in such a way as to work with that V30 cab. Keep in mind that one of the keys to getting the Vox sound right (including Paisley) is the alnico blue or gold speaker. The way the top end compresses is magic, and a V30 just doesn't do it. If you start with the 212 Brit or 212 Gold IR (Gold would be my choice), you can get the amp settings right. Then, you can try to tweak it to work with your V30.

When I've heard what I thought was harshness, it was because I continued to tweak after my ears were fatigued and/or I had adjusted the amp or cab block in such a way that a real amp would have done the same thing.

There are just too many people who use this device and find no inherent digital harshness, so I think the more likely culprit is that you're using the wrong gear and maybe tweaking a little too hastily. I find it easiest to nail a tone by picking the closest virtual representation of what they use and forcing myself to focus on making that work instead of trying a bunch of different setups in the Axe-FX. YMMV....

Just my $.02

D
 
dk_ace said:
He uses Trainwrecks and AC30s for his recorded tones, so a Matchless is an interesting choice for the amp. I'm not saying it isn't the right one for the sound you want, it's just a completely different platform and voicing than the amps he uses. I'm not extremely familiar with the Matchless stuff, so I'm not really familiar with their response and how to set them up.

If it was me, I would stick with one amp that is really close to the one he uses for the tone you want and then work with it until you get what you're looking for. His main recording amp is his pre top boost AC30/4. The Dr. Z amps he plays on the road are pre-top boost AC30 based designs. His tone is a pretty good representation of that sound to me, meaning that it is definately Vox but without the high end harshness that can be present when you push a top boost. I don't hear anything unique about his amp tone really. It just sounds like an early pushed AC30 to me.

I think your best course of action would be to dial this in using good FRFR monitors or headphones using the cab block. Once you've virtually recreated his sound using the correct speaker IR, you can try to adjust it in such a way as to work with that V30 cab. Keep in mind that one of the keys to getting the Vox sound right (including Paisley) is the alnico blue or gold speaker. The way the top end compresses is magic, and a V30 just doesn't do it. If you start with the 212 Brit or 212 Gold IR (Gold would be my choice), you can get the amp settings right. Then, you can try to tweak it to work with your V30.

When I've heard what I thought was harshness, it was because I continued to tweak after my ears were fatigued and/or I had adjusted the amp or cab block in such a way that a real amp would have done the same thing.

There are just too many people who use this device and find no inherent digital harshness, so I think the more likely culprit is that you're using the wrong gear and maybe tweaking a little too hastily. I find it easiest to nail a tone by picking the closest virtual representation of what they use and forcing myself to focus on making that work instead of trying a bunch of different setups in the Axe-FX. YMMV....

Just my $.02

D
Click to expand...


Well put. I like Brad Paisley's tone and have made a few patches. Different flavors but using Class A , Plexi 2 and Top Boost models w/ slap delay and sometimes verb.
 
First pass I thought it sounded like you omitted a cab block. And then I checked your patch you had an FX send out on Out B (which is what I run to my Duet for monitoring at home). Got rid of that and everything sounds like an overdriving top boost preamp to me. The hair on things when you really dig in sounds a touch ick to my ears, but you can dial that out with a little less preamp gain or the volume knob on your guitar.
 
dk_ace said:
He uses Trainwrecks and AC30s for his recorded tones, so a Matchless is an interesting choice for the amp. I'm not saying it isn't the right one for the sound you want, it's just a completely different platform and voicing than the amps he uses. I'm not extremely familiar with the Matchless stuff, so I'm not really familiar with their response and how to set them up.

If it was me, I would stick with one amp that is really close to the one he uses for the tone you want and then work with it until you get what you're looking for.

There are just too many people who use this device and find no inherent digital harshness, so I think the more likely culprit is that you're using the wrong gear and maybe tweaking a little too hastily. I find it easiest to nail a tone by picking the closest virtual representation of what they use and forcing myself to focus on making that work instead of trying a bunch of different setups in the Axe-FX. YMMV....
Click to expand...

My preset was set to the Top Boost model for ages but after watching the video clip above and checking out Doug Seven's tone (http://www.moderncountryguitar.com/) I realized I was missing some detail... some chimeyness. In these circumstances I reach for the Boutique models but as you rightfully imply it shouldn't be necessary... In any case the nasty overtone is there in all the models. Maybe my guitar just doesn't like the Axe. :? I can eliminate it by turning the drive or master down but then I start to lose sustain and grit. :(
 
I noticed that you have your presence set quite high and this on an amp that doesn't have a presence setting. This would cause the exact harsh clipping you seem to be speaking of because you are accentuating the upper harmonics.

All the amps you stated do not have a presence control.
 
javajunkie said:
I noticed that you have your presence set quite high and this on an amp that doesn't have a presence setting. This would cause the exact harsh clipping you seem to be speaking of because you are accentuating the upper harmonics.

All the amps you stated do not have a presence control.
Click to expand...
Hmm... So where should the presence control be set and how should I preserve clarity and definition?
 
Stringtheorist said:
javajunkie said:
I noticed that you have your presence set quite high and this on an amp that doesn't have a presence setting. This would cause the exact harsh clipping you seem to be speaking of because you are accentuating the upper harmonics.

All the amps you stated do not have a presence control.
Click to expand...
Hmm... So where should the presence control be set and how should I preserve clarity and definition?
Click to expand...

I believe the presence should be at 0 on those to emulate the orignals. It doesn't mean you can't use it, but when you have the presence turned up past 6 on an amp that wasn't designed to have a boost there, you can wind up w/ anomalies.

Preserving definition and clarity is best achieved by determining if any frequencies are masking what you want to hear. Your lows and esp. low mids can mask some of the frequencies that are known for clarity and definition. After that you can kick up the presence a bit. You can even bring the presence freq down or up a bit to tune what you want to boost.

Cutting frequencies between 100-300 range (200-250 is a good place to start) can really help with clarity.
 
javajunkie said:
Stringtheorist said:
javajunkie said:
I noticed that you have your presence set quite high and this on an amp that doesn't have a presence setting. This would cause the exact harsh clipping you seem to be speaking of because you are accentuating the upper harmonics.

All the amps you stated do not have a presence control.
Click to expand...
Hmm... So where should the presence control be set and how should I preserve clarity and definition?
Click to expand...

I believe the presence should be at 0 on those to emulate the orignals. It doesn't mean you can't use it, but when you have the presence turned up past 6 on an amp that wasn't designed to have a boost there, you can wind up w/ anomalies.

Preserving definition and clarity is best achieved by determining if any frequencies are masking what you want to hear. Your lows and esp. low mids can mask some of the frequencies that are known for clarity and definition. After that you can kick up the presence a bit. You can even bring the presence freq down or up a bit to tune what you want to boost.

Cutting frequencies between 100-300 range (200-250 is a good place to start) can really help with clarity.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll try this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom