Output 3/4 : 20db

[RoshRoslin]

Lastly, where are your Output 1 and 2 knobs set on the front panel?

 

[sjp_33]

How are your Global EQs set up in each output?
How are your Scene levels in each output set up?

I have global Eq disabled for the outputs.

Lastly, where are your Output 1 and 2 knobs set on the front panel?

I usually set those about half way up or higher or lower depending on whatever the sound engineer asks for. I noticed last gig when I had them set up all the way the sound engineer said, “woah, those signals are too hot” but I realize now that I had the output configurations of 1/2 set to +4db which is probably way too hot for FOH gear(?).
But after digging around a bunch today, I’ve learned that if you set outputs 1/2 to +4db, you have to compensate the output block levels of outputs 3/4 by 19.5db or 7.1 if set at -10dbv.

 

[RoshRoslin]

I have global Eq disabled for the outputs.

I usually set those about half way up or higher or lower depending on whatever the sound engineer asks for. I noticed last gig when I had them set up all the way the sound engineer said, “woah, those signals are too hot” but I realize now that I had the output configurations of 1/2 set to +4db which is probably way too hot for FOH gear(?).
But after digging around a bunch today, I’ve learned that if you set outputs 1/2 to +4db, you have to compensate the output block levels of outputs 3/4 by 19.5db or 7.1 if set at -10dbv.

Thats only to get them to meter in the preset the same way. From your post you're saying that the output of the matrix AND the output 3/4 knobs need to be set maximum to get any decent volume. AND you're also boosting the out 3/4 blocks by 20 db. Thats bonkers to me that that isn't enough volume for any gig.

I've played a couple arena shows with the matrix running a pair of port city 2x12s and I had the matrix up maybe to 1 o clock with the output 3 knob set fully clockwise with unity gain. Again, I disregarded what the output was metering at, I just turned the cabs/matrix up until it was loud enough

Edit: this is assuming that your preset is metering at output 1/2 at 0 db.

 

[sjp_33]

Thats only to get them to meter in the preset the same way. From your post you're saying that the output of the matrix AND the output 3/4 knobs need to be set maximum to get any decent volume. AND you're also boosting the out 3/4 blocks by 20 db. Thats bonkers to me that that isn't enough volume for any gig.

No, If I set out3/4 block to 20db and plug them it into the matrix, I set the matrix to around 1 o clock and adjust the volume on the AxeFx front panel until it’s loud and good sounding. Doing so that way is identical to just running out from 1/2 without compensating.
I don’t know. Maybe our power amps work different(?)
Again, sorry if I’m not making myself clear.

 

[GlennO]

Thats only to get them to meter in the preset the same way. From your post you're saying that the output of the matrix AND the output 3/4 knobs need to be set maximum to get any decent volume. AND you're also boosting the out 3/4 blocks by 20 db. Thats bonkers to me that that isn't enough volume for any gig.

I've played a couple arena shows with the matrix running a pair of port city 2x12s and I had the matrix up maybe to 1 o clock with the output 3 knob set fully clockwise with unity gain. Again, I disregarded what the output was metering at, I just turned the cabs/matrix up until it was loud enough

Edit: this is assuming that your preset is metering at output 1/2 at 0 db.

Any preset that is metering 0 dBVU at output 1 will be metering around -20 dBVU at output 3 when those two output blocks have the same input signal and parameter values. This is what sjp_33 is observing. There’s no mystery here . I think his only question is: should this be mentioned in the owners manual?

 

[mr_fender]

Perhaps add an Output level option in the I/O menu for Outputs 3 and 4 to select between unity gain and line level output?

 

[GlennO]

Perhaps add an Output level option in the I/O menu for Outputs 3 and 4 to select between unity gain and line level output?

That's a good point. When FAS decided to name those Outputs instead of FX Loop sends, they effectively committed to presenting them as being suitable for both purposes. However, it's missing that option on the I/O menu to make it easy to switch between the two.

 

[sjp_33]

Perhaps add an Output level option in the I/O menu for Outputs 3 and 4 to select between unity gain and line level output?

That's a good point. When FAS decided to name those Outputs instead of FX Loop sends, they effectively committed to presenting them as being suitable for both purposes. However, it's missing that option on the I/O menu to make it easy to switch between the two.

This is essentially what had me scratching my head^^
Just wanted to get some further clarification and further expand on what others have observed about those outputs.
Would love to have that switching option in the I/O menu for outputs 3/4 in the future some day
Thank you everyone for everything I super appreciate it!

 

[RoshRoslin]

No, If I set out3/4 block to 20db and plug them it into the matrix, I set the matrix to around 1 o clock and adjust the volume on the AxeFx front panel until it’s loud and good sounding. Doing so that way is identical to just running out from 1/2 without compensating.
I don’t know. Maybe our power amps work different(?)
Again, sorry if I’m not making myself clear.

It's usually the inverse, where you leave the output knobs -fully clockwise-. Again this is where my confusion is coming from. One post says you're fully clockwise on the output 3/4 knobs, now you're saying you adjust the volume using the front panel while leaving the matrix fixed at 1 o clock.

These two posts can be quite confusing.

Thanks for the reply, but as stated, I have the AxeFx output3/4 set to fully clockwise and into the matrix which is also turned up fully clockwise, and it’s still very quiet unless I turn up the level parameter of the Output Blocks of 3/4 up 20db.

I don’t mess with any other level in the grid besides that. Output 1/2 sound amazing and brutally loud going to FOH and when I use those to go into the Matrix instead of output 3/4.

So, for clarity

The general methodology I use is this:
Level my presets watching output 1/2 and get them to meter around 0db
Leave output 3/4 block at 0db. This is the bottom right hand knob in the editor. I leave it at 0db, I completely disregard whatever they meter at unless I am using scene levels in the output 1/2 blocks. I make sure the Scene Level sliders match the output 1/2 Scene sliders.
Output knobs 3/4 -fully clockwise-
Adjust the matrix GT1000fx knobs to whatever stage volume is needed.
Play

 

[Bakerman]

But after digging around a bunch today, I’ve learned that if you set outputs 1/2 to +4db, you have to compensate the output block levels of outputs 3/4 by 19.5db or 7.1 if set at -10dbv.

That 19.5 dB difference claimed in the wiki is what I measured as ~19.93 dB yesterday.

Even though you quoted my post, it seems like you might have skipped past the suggestion of global EQ gain. Since there's no need (or even a way, with cab sims on one output group only) to match levels exactly in this scenario, you could check if setting the Output 3/4 EQ gain sliders to +12 dB adds enough level at Outputs 3 & 4. That would be a one-time adjustment and you then wouldn't have to adjust Output block levels in each preset.