Output 1 makes the mixer distort (turn red)

S

StefanDahl

Member
So I understand that tru 0 on the AX8 is when output 1 is turned all the way up. My problem is, that if I do that. The mixer in our band get´s so much input that the level control on the mixer only can be turned up to where it starts putting out audio to the PA.

And even then it´s blinking red!

Am I doing something wrong?

Stefan :)
 
If possible, use a LINE input instead of a MIC input on the mixer.
If that's not an option, check if the channel provides a PAD button, and use that.
Then adjust the GAIN knob of the channel, to decrease the incoming signal.
Finally, there's no need to turn up the output of the AX8 all the way.
 
you can set "out1 (main) nominal level" parameter to "-10dbu" in setup->i/o menu.
as i understand default value for this is "+4dbu", that works well only with line input on the mixer.
 
So if I use the AX8 in front of a real amp, using only drive or other pedal models, should I set it to -10dbu as well ?
 
It is only correct, if you plug into a -10dB input.

I would keep it at +4, try all of Yeks suggestions, and if necessary reduce out 1 as needed
 
StefanDahl said:
So I understand that tru 0 on the AX8 is when output 1 is turned all the way up.
Click to expand...
“Tru 0” or Unity Gain with Out1 100% is when SHUNTS ONLY are used in the preset. What goes in goes out. Once you add an amp block the volume is increased substantially and you are no longer at “tru 0” - you’re louder.

The Out knob is a volume knob. Use it like any other volume knob.

If you make all your presets have less level in the amp block which allows you to turn out 1 all the way, then you can do so.

The user manual does not state to turn Out 1 up all the way. If that was the case, there wouldn’t be a knob at all.
 
Okay I think I get it. Anyway I was just thinking that the optimal sound would be at max since that is the Unity Gain. Then again im not at all technical enough to make such a statement.

So you guys says it does not matter?

:)
 
StefanDahl said:
Okay I think I get it. Anyway I was just thinking that the optimal sound would be at max since that is the Unity Gain. Then again im not at all technical enough to make such a statement.

So you guys says it does not matter?

:)
Click to expand...
It can matter, but max out 1 does not equal Unity Gain in most cases.
 
True - Unity gain is the wrong term. If the presets are levelled using the VU meter, and Out 1 is full up, you get the perfect level for a line input, and that is the 'optimal' situation. But if you don't have a line input, you do what you have to do.
 
My experience is with the preset signal on the AX8 VUs at 0dB and running the AX8 through my mixer via the line input with the Mixer input and output gain controls on Unit, I get +0dBu from the mixer with the Out 1 set at 50% and +4dBu at around 70%.
 
chris said:
I think the biggest confusion on this issue across all the threads is people seeing the term “Unity Gain,” not knowing what it is, but wanting it thinking it’s a specific “correct setting” where nothing clips.
Click to expand...

I agree Chris, Unity Gain is simply where a device (such as a mixer) neither attenuates or amplifies the incoming signal. That is why I set my mixer at Unity Gain so I can set my AX8 output level so I know that it will not clip my speaker inputs but at the same time optimize my signal to noise ratio.

It is important for users to understand the input sensitivity and clip threshold of the kit they are plugging their AX8 into. For instance whilst different devices my both have an input sensitivity of +4dBu, one may clip at +10dBu whilst the other will clip at +20dBu. Knowing this allows you to better match your AX8 output.
 
My opinion based on almost a year and a half experience using the AX8 in a variety of situations and experimenting with it is that, in an ideal world, you should be able to set OUT 1 to 100% without causing any clipping. You can pull down OUT 1 to compensate but this means you are just working around something wrong elsewhere in the system.

Some common causes:
- You are going through a mic preamp on the mixer (or audio interface) and/or the mixer input gain is set improperly. This usually happens if you are running XLR instead of TRS into the input as the XLR inputs on mixers/interfaces are often hardwired through the mic pres (and sometimes with hardwired gain). Easiest solution is to use the TRS/line input on the mixer and keep gain at 0. Advantage here is that you aren't introducing noise/color from the mic pre and you aren't attenuating the AX8 output just to boost it on a potentially noisy mixer in a potentially (electrically) noisy environment (eg. pretty much any bar gig).
- Your presets are averaging out higher than the vertical line on the AX8 VU meter. I suggest re-leveling your presets to fix this as it means you also greatly reduce the possibility of internal clipping which can easily happen if you add a solo boost, layer some loops, plug in a hotter guitar than usual, get excited at a gig and pick harder, etc.. The amp block levels in the AX8 often need to be pulled down pretty far to get back to a safe output level.
- You are plugging into consumer grade gear. The -10dbV setting is the way to go here.

Some good reasons to sometimes set OUT 1 lower than 100%:
- You want some headroom to boost your own volume. This is useful if you play with a drummer who likes to get louder and louder as the night goes on (and the drinks go down) or if you are in a jam situation where you don't really have a good sound check situation to get a handle on levels. I've found that 75% gives plenty of headroom for these situations.
- You are in a situation where you really do have to compensate on the fly for external issues eg. junky/old mixer, confused sound guy, etc.. I have not encountered this yet but I've seen some posts in the past that suggest this does happen.

I'm always looking to improve my methods and understanding so if anyone takes issue with any of my points, feel free to chime in!
 
Smittefar said:
True - Unity gain is the wrong term. If the presets are levelled using the VU meter, and Out 1 is full up, you get the perfect level for a line input, and that is the 'optimal' situation. But if you don't have a line input, you do what you have to do.
Click to expand...
I think this needs to be emphasized a bit. Using a line level input versus a mic level input makes a huge difference (regardless of where you like Output 1 set, in my experience.) If you are using the xlr input on your interface, it is likely not a line level input. if a line level input is available on your interface (typically a 1/4" input), try using it instead. I've had better results all around since I figured this out.
 
The AX8 was simply not designed to have the Out knob turned all the way up. You can adjust your other gear to allow it if you have full control over it. I have done it in the past for repeatable levels when I use my own mixer, but the mixer Gain is very low or even all the way down, but this is something most sound engineers will not want to do (for whatever reason).

I gigged last night and there is no way I can get CLOSE to turning the out knob all the way up on the mixer provided to us there. Even at line level, I can only turn the out knob up to 9 o clock to get a comfortable level into the mixer. This is my experience with most mixers and sound guys.

Out knob 100% is NOT a “correct” setting. There is no correct setting. It’s all dependent on the other gear you use. Is it ideal? Perhaps, but you could say that about ANY output knob on any gear.

In my 20 years of gigging experience, I’ve almost NEVER had an “ideal” setup. Live performance is always about compromise. Unless you bring all the gear and do it your way, you’re going to have to change something, and turning down your volume is usually the main one - either for signal amount or perceived loudness.

Please use the Out knob as a variable level knob as intended. I start mine around 9 o clock and it sounds amazing at every gig.

If you want to turn it all the way up, you need to take steps to reduce your presets to allow that.“Unity Gain” is with Shunts only by default. Load a preset with just Shunts and check out the VU meter. Check where that average is and then adjust all your presets to THAT.

I’ve typed this so many times
 
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