One Amp or Many? Time to think fresh.

The other thing to think about -- thanks to the magic of Fractal technology -- is that as with tube amps, you get a lot of variations from an amp sim using the volume control as well as tone controls (and of course the pickup selections.)
 
Rick said:
I haven't used global blocks, but what they offer in uniformity does seem to go right along with what I am working on here.
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Global Blocks are very cool and is was also one of the main factors that helped my decision to go with one amp type for a whole setlist.
It meant any tweaks were saved across all presets, which made tweaking during rehearsal so easy and quick.
Hoping it's something that can be added in later on for the AX8
 
Very interesting thread, thank you. I am new to modelers, just read the f ... AX8 manual, but there is this thought coming to my mind: what is the sense of using a modeler live in a - say - top 40 band and then stick to one or two amps? You could just as well use the fx8 with your favorite amp - no pun intended, just want to know your opinion.
 
Hhuent said:
Very interesting thread, thank you. I am new to modelers, just read the f ... AX8 manual, but there is this thought coming to my mind: what is the sense of using a modeler live in a - say - top 40 band and then stick to one or two amps? You could just as well use the fx8 with your favorite amp - no pun intended, just want to know your opinion.
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I think it's cool to use a Fender amp for funk/R&B, a Marshall for crunch sounds and a Mesa Boogie variant for leads, that's usually a better sonic option than using one amp for all three (not that my Mini Rectifier is close...) Then take into account all the pedals you don't need to drag along.
 
Hhuent said:
Very interesting thread, thank you. I am new to modelers, just read the f ... AX8 manual, but there is this thought coming to my mind: what is the sense of using a modeler live in a - say - top 40 band and then stick to one or two amps? You could just as well use the fx8 with your favorite amp - no pun intended, just want to know your opinion.
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It's really a completely different question for me. Having the Axe Fx or AX8 gives you the opportunity to pick between all of the great options in the machine, and then reinvent your sound anytime you want. It's like having an incredibly expensive inventory of amps/cabs/effects/switchers at home in your store room and being able to bring them out at any time.

What I have been finding is that having them doesn't necessarily mean using more than you need is a positive for your band sound. In some bands, such as the Beatles tribute group The Fab Four, they change whole band sounds all night, so everyone changing at once to replicate the recording makes sense. Accuracy to the original is the whole point. In a normal covers band, it really isn't, and a good and consistent band sound is what is most pleasing to the audience. That's what has caused me to revisit exactly how diverse a setup is actually benefitting my performance in this environment.
 
Rick said:
Having the Axe Fx or AX8 gives you the opportunity to pick between all of the great options in the machine, and then reinvent your sound anytime you want. It's like having an incredibly expensive inventory of amps/cabs...In a normal covers band, it really isn't, and a good and consistent band sound is what is most pleasing to the audience. That's what has caused me to revisit exactly how diverse a setup is actually benefitting my performance in this environment.
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Wise words, guys, much appreciated - just don't want t to find myself tweaking the ax8 more than playing guitar. On the other hand: once you're set, you're set. Global blocks would be nice though...
 
Smittefar said:
I was even thinking about using different outputs and thus different mixer channels for my different sounds. I basically think, I will have one America and one British base styles with clean crunch and lead on each. Maybe American and British styles could go to different mixer channels.
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I thought a little bit more about this, and it is probably not such a good idea as I first thought. Setting up separate channels for my british and american rigs on the mixer would allow me to EQ them separately to sit in the mix, so it might help, but it would most likely still throw off the rest of the band's EQ.
 
I getting the sound in my head all my sounds tend to move toward the same sonic area anyway. I use the DC30, HB and an Xtacy primarily live.
 
Hhuent said:
Wise words, guys, much appreciated - just don't want t to find myself tweaking the ax8 more than playing guitar. On the other hand: once you're set, you're set. Global blocks would be nice though...
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Fractal gear comes with what I call a tweaking black hole. Lot's of guys fall victim to it. A few reasons include wanting to use all parameters pretty much because they are there to use, trying to use a ton of amps and cabs (also because they are there to use) and trying to nail every recorded tone they ever liked.

So are advanced parameters bad? Hell no
Is using many amps bad No (well maybe based on this thread if you are trying to use them all at one gig)
Is nailing recorded tone bad? Maybe depends on your application.

The point is this. The currently fractal line of modellers (XL+ and AX8) can sound great with not a ton of tweaking. If you allow your self to get caught up in the black holes (there are others) you will drawn and in fact spend more time tweaking than playing. I started on the Ultra went to ii and currently have an XL. My buddy got the ii when it first released had it maybe a year/year and a half and got rid of it because he spent to much time tweaking. To this day between all my Fractal units I have tweaked less hours than he did in that short time period.
 
Smittefar said:
I thought a little bit more about this, and it is probably not such a good idea as I first thought. Setting up separate channels for my british and american rigs on the mixer would allow me to EQ them separately to sit in the mix, so it might help, but it would most likely still throw off the rest of the band's EQ.
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There's no need to dedicate separate channels to those tones at all.
Many pro players use a channel switching amp, which covers ultra-clean tones to crushing high-gain, yet they only use a single channel strip on the board, eliminating all frequencies below (i.e.) 200 Hz and above 6 kHz.

Especially when using a modeler such as the Axe-Fx or AX8 for the first time, it really pays off to stick to just a couple of models (amp and cab) and start exploring from there. Otherwise you'll lose your point of reference.That's what I did wrong at first when getting my digital gear. :)
 
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Agreed - I have a three channel amp today.
My thought was to have one mixer channel with a British Vox/Marshall setup into one cabinet. The other channel would be an American setup with Fender/Mesa into another cab. These two setups might need different EQ, so it might make sense to have them running in different mixer channels.

But, I can just have parametric EQs at the end of each preset, eliminating the need for extra mix channels.
 
yek said:
There's no need to dedicate separate channels to those tones at all.
Many pro players use a channel switching amp, which covers ultra-clean tones to crushing high-gain, yet they only use a single channel strip on the board, eliminating all frequencies below (i.e.) 200 Hz and above 6 kHz.

Especially when using a modeler such as the Axe-Fx or AX8 for the first time, it really pays off to stick to just a couple of models (amp and cab) and start exploring from there. Otherwise you'll lose your point of reference.That's what I did wrong at first when getting my digital gear. :)
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Likewise. When modelers came out , a buddy and I got some and did a bunch of recording and writing. Doing away with different mics, their proximity , cabs , speakers swaps , etc , seemed like a dream. After a short time , all recordings of our guitars , sounded like thin , piercing crap. I alone went back to a mic'd amp , so one of us would have a reference of what a good REAL amp sounds like.
 
When I first Fractalized my live rig in 2008 on the Ultra, I went full on hogwild - FRFR and loads of presets, each with different amp and cab. I did it because I could, and I thought this was how to get 'the most' out it. Thought I was pretty cool bringing 50+ amp rigs to every jam or small gig :)

But it drove me nuts in short order. I like tech, but I love music more. Tech overload was getting in the way of the music.

First I ditched multiple IRs, started using one single IR for consistency.
Then I cut down my presets, limited myself to 4 or 5 at first, all with the same IR.
Then I ditched IRs entirely, started using a real cab on stage.
Then, after realizing I was always gravitating to the same 1 or 2 amp models (with a few drive blocks), I had to admit my Axe-II \ MFC rig was overkill. So I started using a real amp and a few real pedals.

Then my FX8 came, I use it with my amp and that's where I'm at now. Great live tone that fits my band, consistently, without even thinking about it. Quality over quantity.

I still love to nerd out with the II in the home studio, and I'm still ready to buy the AX8 when my invite comes.. think it might replace my II and my FX8 to cover all bases.
 
I have three presets built around the Tucana amp that I am going to go a night on this weekend. I just want to see how much I can get from one amp and cab and go from there. I do have one Y amp setting with a Matchless, but haven't been using it yet. Really, this should be like the old days of one amp mic'ed to the mixer so I think it'll be a familiar starting place.
 
I play 100% in a church context. We have one engineer on staff and the rest of the FOH folks are volunteers (although very well trained).
I stick to the same amp/cab for the weekend (stuck on the Two-Rock right now and can't seem to get away from it's awesomeness) and just change effects and guitar volume/tone/attack/etc as the songs dictate. Seems to work well with our FOH team - they can EQ me once during rehearsal and pretty much be done with it. Stress-free simplicity.

EDIT: Something that seems to work for me is to set my amp block settings so that full guitar volume is getting into lead/saturation territory. That way I can roll the volume down for clean, and crank it for almost-lead but keep the same base tone. I also set it up so that the tone sweet spot is at about the 50% position of my tone knob. If a song needs to be more bright then I just crank the tone knob up on the guitar a bit.
 
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I have a rig based around one amp and one cab. What I do is tweak it for each of my guitars so that it's a little more balanced if I switch guitars. I'll use one preset per guitar but it's all built around one amp and one cab.
 
Rick said:
The simple fact is that, while my tone changes were accurate to the recordings, the rest of the band wasn't changing tones when I did and it was making my sound stick out in an unmusical way.
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Kudos! This is a crucial observation.

Guitarists -- particularly those having the skills to program modeling gear -- have a tendency to want to match their guitar's production values to a reference recording. That's cool if the band is taking care to match production values for all of the of the instruments on a tune. (A classic example for those of us past a certain age: Todd Rundgren's "Faithful"...)

In reality, it's usually only the guitarists that care about production minutae. The other musicians tend to play a sound that "fits", and quietly wonder why the guitarist doesn't...

The problem seems to be exacerbated by having more musicians. One can make pretty much any production values "work" in a trio format (guitar, bass and drums). But every musican beyond those three takes up more of the sonic space and constrains what can usefully fit into the remaining space.

Sorry, I don't have an AX8; I just think this is an interesting conversation. I do the same thing with the AFX that I always did using a "traditional" rig: I run one amp, one cab and an assortment of pedals. In the distant past I experimented with using both channel switchers and dual amps for clean vs. lead sounds; I reached the conclusion that a drive pedal in front of the amp works better for me (in terms of feel, dynamics and tone) than does channel- or amp-switching.
 
I definitely think one IR can really help using a few different amps. It definitely makes you think about just going back to a tube amp and FX8 but sometimes I think the direct tone is better especially when keeping your tube amp quiet. Tough call though. I could see why a lot might end up full circle back with an amp when you talk about limiting yourself to 2 amp models. I think right now I use almost 6 different amp models. And yes this is the exact reason the AX8 needs global blocks.
 
Keg8605 said:
I definitely think one IR can really help using a few different amps. It definitely makes you think about just going back to a tube amp and FX8 but sometimes I think the direct tone is better especially when keeping your tube amp quiet. Tough call though. I could see why a lot might end up full circle back with an amp when you talk about limiting yourself to 2 amp models. I think right now I use almost 6 different amp models. And yes this is the exact reason the AX8 needs global blocks.
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Even if I only used 1 amp sim the Axe or AX would still be the way to go for me. Consistency of sound, no stage volume when needed, program ability and killer fx make it a winner for me
 
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