One Amp or Many? Time to think fresh.

Uggghhh, you guys are killing me. I create one song per preset and you know what, everything you have been saying is a million percent right. I'm going to have to rethink all of this. My church I'll leave one song per preset because I use tempos and Delays for everything but for my other band I might be over doing it just a bit, because even though my guitar sound is spot on the recording, nobody else in the band is spot on, so even though my intentions are good, I might be working in the opposite direction. This is a great thread, thanks for this.
 
scottburrow said:
Uggghhh, you guys are killing me. I create one song per preset and you know what, everything you have been saying is a million percent right. I'm going to have to rethink all of this. My church I'll leave one song per preset because I use tempos and Delays for everything but for my other band I might be over doing it just a bit, because even though my guitar sound is spot on the recording, nobody else in the band is spot on, so even though my intentions are good, I might be working in the opposite direction. This is a great thread, thanks for this.
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I do the one preset per song thing but all those presets are one of two amps in a rare case I add a 3rd but that third is the clean channel of one of the other two lol. Scenes ect help me nail all the section of songs as far as FX's and drives on and off ect goes but core tone is always just those two amps sound mean love me
 
brokenvail said:
I do the one preset per song thing but all those presets are one of two amps in a rare case I add a 3rd but that third is the clean channel of one of the other two lol. Scenes ect help me nail all the section of songs as far as FX's and drives on and off ect goes but core tone is always just those two amps sound mean love me
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Exactly.
 
scottburrow said:
Uggghhh, you guys are killing me. I create one song per preset and you know what, everything you have been saying is a million percent right. I'm going to have to rethink all of this. My church I'll leave one song per preset because I use tempos and Delays for everything but for my other band I might be over doing it just a bit, because even though my guitar sound is spot on the recording, nobody else in the band is spot on, so even though my intentions are good, I might be working in the opposite direction. This is a great thread, thanks for this.
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I also use one preset per song but overall use mostly the AC20 with the AC30 for cleans. To get around the whole maintenance of my presets (as I have many for my church) I make use of globals for Amps and Cabs. This way if I have to tweak something in my amp then at least all my presets work from the same global and saves me having to tweak every single preset.
As everyone else has mentioned, scenes are a great way to handle the intro/verse/chorus/bridge etc.
 
chucma said:
I also use one preset per song but overall use mostly the AC20 with the AC30 for cleans. To get around the whole maintenance of my presets (as I have many for my church) I make use of globals for Amps and Cabs. This way if I have to tweak something in my amp then at least all my presets work from the same global and saves me having to tweak every single preset.
As everyone else has mentioned, scenes are a great way to handle the intro/verse/chorus/bridge etc.
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Ax8 has no global blocks :-(
 
scottburrow said:
Uggghhh, you guys are killing me. I create one song per preset and you know what, everything you have been saying is a million percent right. I'm going to have to rethink all of this. My church I'll leave one song per preset because I use tempos and Delays for everything but for my other band I might be over doing it just a bit, because even though my guitar sound is spot on the recording, nobody else in the band is spot on, so even though my intentions are good, I might be working in the opposite direction. This is a great thread, thanks for this.
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That's right where I am, in a way, Scott. Rethinking it, trying to get a better band sound as opposed to a "Rick" sound. I've tried a few single amps with multiple settings and haven't found what I am looking for yet. Going to keep digging. Probably not easy because it's actually worth doing. ;)

That could be a song... And I still haven't found what I'm looking for...
 
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I have patches with various amps, but when I put a setlist together, I base all the presets on the same amp and cab for the same reasons already mentioned.

Using the same amp and cab means all my presets have the same 'base tone', so once I'm mixed at the board to fit into the mix it won't change too much.

I know some people that swap presets during a song and go from completely different amp/cab combos during sections of a song. To me, when listening out front, it has never gone so well. At least if you do it on a per-song basis you give the FOH engineer a chance to fit you back into the mix properly.
 
scottburrow said:
My church I'll leave one song per preset because I use tempos and Delays for everything
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Nothing wrong with one song per preset - this is how I work too.

The only thing is that I decide what 'base tone' I want for that set (AC30, Marshall, Fender etc) and then use the relative template. I then just save the exact same template across however many slots I need and save them with name I want and tempo. It then gives me the opportunity to save whatever effect combinations I need across my the five scenes that I use.
 
Rick said:
2. See if using fewer cabs will balance the changes (as they seem to affect the sound as much as anything)?
3. Work particularly hard on making the transitions between amps and cabs more agreeable?
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I think using a common ir and balancing levels would be the best you could do.

I used to use mostly one or two ir's before ultra-res and later fw came out, but now so many sound great I use many more and have the issues you describe.

I guess it's just one of the side effects of have so many great tones available!? which is a good thing :)
 
I haven't used global blocks, but what they offer in uniformity does seem to go right along with what I am working on here. Maybe it'll come in a future firmware. I am working in the X/Y amps as another of many possibilities to homogenize my palette a tad.
 
my go to is 3 amp ( jc-120, jcm800, Mark IIC+ )
on 3 cabs ( rolland jc-120, Marshall Greenback, Cali Cab )
all tweek to cut in the right sonic space with my other guitar player.
we both have 3 preset and we all use our rock or heavy sound together.
the idea to have a determinate space in the mix for both instruments on both drives chanel but stay in the sonic space we agreed to stay in.
 
I agree pretty much with the majority here. Being in a studio of course makes it different for me but I still use 3 amps tops and only have a few presets-consistency in my recordings is main reason.....Good thread Rick
 
jlynnb1 said:
i covered 70 song sets with two amps and two ir's. Matchless DC30 and an appropriate cab and the Friedman Smallbox and an appropriate cab, With those and drive pedals, nothing I couldn't cover short of teh brootalz...
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Interesting. I keep returning to the DC30 and Friedmans, too, with a little Deluxe Verb and Plexi tone of the week thrown in. I experiment with others, but frequently return to these.

If you like a more versatile amp roster, record your band—minus you. Then dial in your tones to fit the recordings. Let the amps and cabs fall where they may.
 
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Tone Collector said:
Very interesting thread....wondering if Moke will chime in, he plays out live.
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Yes I will....:)
I've gone through this same process. I am using over a dozen different amp sims to get the right attack, sustain, distortion character, edge of breakup etc....But I now use only a couple of cab IRs for almost all presets for more continuity in our show. Note... I am the only guitarist in our band, so I have less sonic obstacles in my way......

I still have quite a few 'Tone Matches'. Most were done with the cab block active using one of my main IRs and the 'Tone Match' block after in series, with the 'Amount' dialed back to achieve a balance between my 'core' sound and the 'tone match' flavor. Technic and attitude get you the rest of the way there. A few presets for very 'distinct' tones are full on 'tone matches' with some post EQ adjustments to balance the overall spectrum, fine-tuned while playing back 'live' multi-track recordings of our band.

When a new song is added, the same process starts over.....
 
Rex said:
Interesting. I keep returning to the DC30 and Friedmans, too, with a little Deluxe Verb and Plexi tone of the week thrown in. I experiment with others, but frequently return to these.

If you like a more versatile amp roster, record your band—minus you. Then dial in your tones to fit the recordings. Let the amps and cabs fall where they may.
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We have a couple of dates recorded, in multitrack. This is once of the places that had me thinking there was a conflict. It's a great idea to try the new settings in these tracks ad see if it works better.
 
"I use few presets for the very same reasons you state. Once the FOH is dialed in, radical amp / cab changes wreck the mix."

Plus 1 here. I found the same issue. Changing amps/cabs drove FOH nuts so now stick to one or two amps and a single cab, max. They love me now. (-:
 
ksandvik said:
Clean, dirt, lead.
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Absitively, posolutely. Sometimes phrased as Clean, Rhythm, Lead.

In my capacity as a recording engineer, in mixing DI or modeled tracks; finding the perfect variation of the cabinet model for the mix is almost always more effective at fitting the dynamic changes of a song than changes to EQ. (of course there will also be a static EQ, usually just HP and LP) Even using an IR with the mic set to a different position will make a noticeable difference in how it sits.

Rather than try to EQ for each song (or worse - chorus/verse, etc) My suggestion for live FRFR would be to find a cabinet model that works with the band and dial in the three core Clean, Rhythm, Lead tones with one amp and that cabinet model first, and go on from there. It shouldn't be a huge challenge to for those that need to invoke a few different amp models live and still get the Marshall to sound like a Marshall, a Vox like a Vox and so on. Getting a cabinet model that works with them all will provide cohesion to a wider range of changes in volume and material without the losing proposition of having to endlessly fuss the EQ or volume to have it work. One stereo or a pair of different dual mono cabinet IRs should also not be a problem when set up to allow a consistent place in the mix.
 
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I was even thinking about using different outputs and thus different mixer channels for my different sounds. I basically think, I will have one America and one British base styles with clean crunch and lead on each. Maybe American and British styles could go to different mixer channels.
 
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