One amp at a time

X24GtrMan

X24GtrMan

Member
I've only had my AX8 a little over a week and Im not sure if I should keep it. To me I find it a bit tedious to hook it up to my powered speaker, my computer and my guitar to dial in tones. The interface on the unit itself is a bit cumbersome to navigate nevermind change settings and save.
All that said the models are wonderful and inspiring to play. My hang up is the amount of time I have to yield to get one amp sound with FX as needed and setting up the scenes, etc.
I know several of the forum guys have been at this a long time. I'm used to dialing in tube amps but at a much faster rate than the AX8. Do I need to give it more time or plan to use it as a home dreamscape tool? I don't see this being a live unit I can gig with bc I don't want to bring a computer with me to manipulate changes, EQs, drives etc on the fly. Am I missing something to ease set up?
How have you guys overcome this issue?
 
Setup tones as close to gig volume, perhaps in a rehearsal room if needed. With such a small unit, the on-board interface and controls can’t be huge, so a computer interface makes the most sense.

Yes, with a real amp having 10 or so knobs to turn on average, adjusting on a digital device is very different. The goal though is to create presets where you don’t have to adjust anything on the gig, so you won’t need to bring a computer anyway. Thousands of guitarists are using this system successfully.

Are you familiar with using computers? I’ve consulted many people who bought their very first computer ever specifically for editing an Axe-Fx. So I end up not teaching how to use the Axe, but instead how to use a computer. It’s more common than most may think.

What has been causing “the amount of time” you’ve needed so far to make an amp with effects?
 
I own both a Mac and PC which both have the Axeditor software installed to make dialing in easier. I've been a tube amp user for the past thirty years and agree they are simpler to dial in.
I have found I spend most of my time going through the amp model itself to set up the parameters described in the "tech notes" pages referring to the volume clean to mean settings as I am in search of that sound on all the amps I own and the AX8. It's time consuming to have to bring up the amp section, go to the lowest tab (speaker something) and the tweak the settings there, save and move on to cabinet/speaker options etc. It appears there's no simple twist a knob and change with the AX8. Again, after 30 years of live playing I've yet to find rehearsal levels concurrent with show levels without needing some further tweaking. To that end the AX8 doesn't seem as foolproof as you make it out to be.
It's insulting to ask if I own a computer or use one especially by the moderator. Perhaps I should return it since I am flamed for asking how folks get around the time needed to use it properly. I don't have eight hours a day to give to setting up amp models for shows nor pressing the window in the software each time I depress a switch to check the level of an effect in the chain and see if my footswitch locations are correct. It's tedious and mind numbing. I got this for an option when I play small rooms or pit orchestra shows and need a small footprint that's flexible and has DI capability. The AX8 exceeds that but apparently I need computer and FAS training to use it.
Thanks for the help.
 
X24GtrMan said:
It's insulting to ask if I own a computer or use one especially by the moderator. Perhaps I should return it since I am flamed for asking how folks get around the time needed to use it properly.
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did you read the part where i said that many customers buy their first computer with an Axe? i'm not flaming you at all. it's a simple question said without any judgment. i'm not assuming anything so i'm asking. please don't read into what i've said. "yes, i'm familiar with computers" would have worked :)

in order to help you, we need to know more information. i have simply asked for the information. now that you've shared detail about what you're doing and what is causing "the amount of time" (your words), we can help you more accurately. now that we know it isn’t computer-related, we don’t have to consider any of that moving forward and can focus on the main issues.

X24GtrMan said:
I have found I spend most of my time going through the amp model itself to set up the parameters described in the "tech notes" pages referring to the volume clean to mean settings as I am in search of that sound on all the amps I own and the AX8. It's time consuming to have to bring up the amp section, go to the lowest tab (speaker something) and the tweak the settings there, save and move on to cabinet/speaker options etc. It appears there's no simple twist a knob and change with the AX8. Again, after 30 years of live playing I've yet to find rehearsal levels concurrent with show levels without needing some further tweaking. To that end the AX8 doesn't seem as foolproof as you make it out to be.
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i've been using the Axe-Fx gear for 10 years now. i don't do ANY of what you've described, nor do i do any of the "tech notes" things. i simply pick an amp model, a cab type, and then just adjust the Basic bass, mid, treble, etc. maybe the Graphic EQ in the amp block. and honestly that's it. it takes minutes to setup a preset, then of course i might adjust things as time goes on.

have you tried just loading an amp and cab without all that advanced stuff? it typically isn't necessary and many here will tell you the exact same. just because the options are there doesn't mean you have to use them.

did you try the factory presets? what did you think about those? again, asking for more information as we don't know what you're hearing, how you're interpreting etc. there's literally no way to help you if we don't have information other than "i need help."

what amp models have you tried? not every amp - real or modeled - can clean up with the volume knob.
 
You weren't flamed. @chris asked how familiar you are with computers, because...
chris said:
I’ve consulted many people who bought their very first computer ever specifically for editing an Axe-Fx. So I end up not teaching how to use the Axe, but instead how to use a computer. It’s more common than most may think.
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He's an extremely helpful guy with a long history here who's just trying to get the information he needs to give you the best help he can.
 
For a gig, what is your normal setup before AX8? Once you get the basic steps (especially with Blocks saved to library) figured out the AX8 is quick to setup with Scenes and Scene Controllers. No need to take a computer to the gig.
 
It takes a little time to get the familiarity with the device, and going USB to AX8 Edit helps a lot. But some tips -
  • Blank the preset when you start. A lot of the factory ones have some surprising settings hidden in there. Use the menu command.
  • IME a lot rides on having some good go-to cab IRs. From the factory stuff, anything labeled ML or OH is instantly usable, so start with one of those. I often start with the cab before anything else.
  • Drop an amp in and just fiddle with Drive, TMB, Presence. If that plus a good cab isn't at least getting close to what you want, then either the amp or cab needs to change. All of the advanced crazy stuff is for adjustments, not fundamental tone.
  • Exception to the above is the Mesa Mark (USA IIC) which sounds weird without the Graphic EQ. This is authentic to the real amp.
  • A studio reverb at the end of the chain, set 1-2 seconds, really helps give a little bit of life to the sound when you're in a smaller room on monitors.
 
There is a learning curve ,I,ve found in cab block turn bass frequence to 100 and treble to any where from 6500 to 8000 and in amp block turn the bass down ,Those are my go to.I use a qsc k10 and mostly humbucker guitars. Other than that I treat it like a normal amp. It is a bit overwhelming at first .
 
I have been gigging live with FAS for the last 9 years. Never once took a computer to a gig and never needed one. I do use the computer editor to setup the presets but once I have them set up, I just use the presets like a “real amp”.

Easier to dial in a real tube amp? Perhaps. Easier to take my AX8 than a bunch of tube amps? Absolutely.
 
chris said:
have you tried just loading an amp and cab without all that advanced stuff?
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No, I will give that a go this evening.

chris said:
did you try the factory presets? what did you think about those?
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I went through all of the factory presets when I got the unit through a QSC K8. Some were good, some meh but I also think they were a good idea of what the unit is capable of doing. I liked the Fender style amps especially the tweed ones and have spent some time with the 59 and 65 bassguy amp models. I prefer a clean w hair for my base tone and add FX for color. Having the option of an X/Y amp (Clean/Dirty) is taking some getting use to b/c all of my tube amps are single channel. The Marshall clones are good and I've found some of the Larry Mitchell presets to be good out of the box with minimal tweaks.
I am aware of the learning curve and appreciate each of you taking the time to share how you attack using the pedal. I keep reading about players like GeezerJohn who gig the AX8. I need to feel comfortable enough to use it without the peripheral computer jazz to take it out. I'm not there in a week and don't expect to be.

There is a lot of info on here to sift through. EdGe's post is super helpful bc I use a K10 as my floor wedge and K8s for mains bc most rooms around here are small. It's not a true FRFR but I'm not ready to take that plunge. The more comfortable we are with gear the more likely we are to use it. I've got to take the time to learn how to navigate this easier.
Again, thanks for the time and help. I appreciate it. -christopher
 
I've been using the AX8 live for a number of years now and if I don't dial in my sounds at gig volume using a good FRFR monitor they aren't going to sound right, but it's usually just a few adjustments with the BMTD and P knobs on the unit to adjust. In fact with most amps that's all I really change besides gain settings. Sometimes I'll use the fat or cut switches.

One thing that I find makes it easier is to go to the CAB block and adjust locut to about 100 and hicut to about 6500 - 8500 so it's more like a real guitar speaker cabinet. That helps to keep you in the ballpark of a guitar cab and I find it's easier to dial in my sound.

Edit: LOL, just saw that EDGE just posted about the CAB block while I was typing my post up. That's what I get for watching TV and talking to my wife while typing up a post
 
Just rediscovered the matchless d-30, great for clean and a bit dirty.cant remember off the top of my head but I think I'm using a fractal 160 GB cab . Use your guitar volume to clean up and full volume leads just with my guitar volume .Using that preset for a tune from pousette dart band ,county line, with a mxr 90 phaser ,I am using a humbucker guitar with both pickups ,Beautiful :)
 
X24GtrMan said:
QSC K8
...
K10 as my floor wedge and K8s for mains
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in my opinion, the K series speakers have a lot of lows and highs naturally. i tend to always dial that back with my mixer. they sound great in the store and with an iPod playing music, but for live sound, sometimes there's just too much and i can't hear the clarity in the mids. and classic guitar tones are all about the mids. if they're buried in lows and highs, you might be struggling and wonder why people think the AX8 sounds great. (it does! i use it 3x a week or more for years now.)

in my opinion, any amp modeler directly to K series speakers (without any EQ adjustment) will sound muddy and shrill at the same time, so consider that when trying to create tones. if everything you currently use already sound great through your speakers as is, then you can just adjust the Global Graphic EQ on the AX8 to make it fit in more to what you already have. try several different presets and make an "average" global eq adjustment that makes things sound good, then create tones from there.
 
Another good option is to download a preset with scenes from the Exchange, such as those provided by @2112 , and use as a template for your setup. Following the preset path setup (scenes, controllers, etc) gives you a quick but thorough lesson so you can formulate your own preset layout.
 
With some basic understanding of the interface, you can dial in great tones simply using the core "knobs" that you would find on a regular amp. Think of anything else on the interface as a "mod" you would have to do to the physical amp in order to make a change. Most wouldn't consider it because of the technical know-how and time it would take. Fractal products make those mods effortless, but that doesn't mean you have to use them. You absolutely need a quality FRFR and you need to dial in your tones at gig volume. Otherwise your tones are going to be colored by the speakers you are using. Get used to using the low and high cuts on the amp block and you should have no issue getting great, consistent tone. You can tweak until your heart's content but it isn't necessary. If the factory presets or presets from others are not working for you, try to recreate the signal chain of an amp rig you are familiar/happy with. Once you get used to this unit, tweaking and setting up presets is a snap and takes far less time than rearranging a physical pedal board. Learning can be frustrating, but if you put in some time, listen to folks around here who have a ton of knowledge, and be open-minded about the process, you will be rewarded. Good luck!
 
X24GtrMan said:
I don't see this being a live unit I can gig with
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I play 7-8 gigs a week with it and teach 6 classes per week with it. I wish I would have bought it years ago.

Having said that, for the first month I hated it. I had all the frustrations that you are having due to the steep learning curve. That first month I spent 10-12 hours a day on it, unable to make it sound good. In my 35 years of playing I have never had a piece of gear make me this frustrated.

This piece of gear demands more attention to detail than anything you've ever owned. That is because it is capable of so much. Can't have one without the other.

But after awhile of learning from the good people here, searching the forums for solutions to my problems and watching Leon Todd videos all of that went away. If you put in the work and study you will be rewarded.
 
I want to reiterate that this unit encompasses an entire guitar rig. People say this is harder than an amp but that’s because it’s not JUST an amp. It’s an amp, delay pedals, reverbs, chorus, drives, etc.

Typically with analog gear, we buy an amp first. Learn how to use it and make our tone. Then later, we buy a delay pedal, learn how to use it and make our tone. Then later, we buy a chorus pedal, learn how to use it, then make our tone.

Imagine buying a full set of pedals and amps all at once from the music store then trying to make it all work hours before the gig without knowing how to use any of it. You’d be in the exact same situation.

Treat the Axe-Fx products the same way. Start with an Amp and Cab. And stay there for a while. Don’t add anything else. Play around with different amp types, cab choices, etc. THEN add a delay. Play around with that, get comfortable. Etc.

If you try to create an entire guitar rig in an hour on a new unit, you’re bound to get frustrated. With anything new, there must be time allocated to learn things. It’s the exact same with “easier” analog gear, but we just typically add things one piece at a time after we already know how to use what we already own.
 
FWIW: I've had my AX8 for 1.5 years, and the computer part of it is still my least favorite part of the unit. When I first got it, I really wanted to throw it out of the nearest window out of frustration...

BUT! Now that I've had it for a while, I have been able to play around with it, find out what features I do and don't care about. Focusing almost entirely on the features I like and need. My go-to presets are set up and I'm interacting with ways to amplify the sound in a couple different ways that work just fine. (And I pretty much got to this point within a short getting-to-know-you time frame. It didn't take 1.5 years.)

Use features that work for you, ignore what doesn't. Get use to it and set it up to work for your needs. Then forget about the rest until you need to look at it, for whatever reason.

I do get the computer frustration. I don't see a way around it though, from time to time.

Good luck!
 
Thanks to each of you for the insights and suggestions. I'm working on learning the unit to find what works for me and my tonal needs. I'm going to buy a Xitone powered cab to better ascertain gig volume levels and sounds to make the most of what it has to offer.
 
X24GtrMan said:
. I need to feel comfortable enough to use it without the peripheral computer jazz to take it out. I'm not there in a week and don't expect to be.
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I've been gigging with the AX8 for a couple of years now. I have not needed to take a computer to tweak ever. I joined a hard rock band recently and have taken said laptop to rehearsals to tweak as I develop my sound for that band - but actually only pulled it out once so far. About 4 months ago, I took my old tube amp and cab to a gig and used AX8 for effects. What a total pain. I could not believe the contrast in getting my levels right, the tone setup at the venue and everything else. Once you get over the hump of doing the first few gigs (and tweaking the live sound a little bit), you will not look back. The AX8 is definitly the best piece of equipment that I have purchased and the FAS team just keep making it better and better. Stick with it man - you will love it once the early learning curve is done :D
 
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