Not too much clean but a little dirty Amp or Drive Block

bluesk165

bluesk165

Inspired
Among the FM9's drives or amplifiers, are there any that are not very clean and somewhat dirty
even if the gain is small?
I'm sorry. It's difficult to express it in writing.
When I sing songs like pop songs or blues, I try to express the harmony well without the chords jumping out.



Thanks a lot !!!!
 
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Sounds like you'd like an amp without a lot of clean headroom, IOW, an amp the breaks up at lower volumes. Any lower wattage "tube amp" (e.g. EL-84 and 6V6-based) amps will have less headroom.

Perhaps the Suhr Badger or something with a tweaked input trim might be helpful. The input trim can add a touch more overdrive for EOB. Other amps that have great cleans but can be dialed in for just a touch of overdrive are the ODS Clean or ODS Ford, Bludojai, and other Dumble-based circuits.

It was noted that the video contained a Dr Z amp. There are several renditions of the Dr Z series in the amp library, if that's what you're after...
 
I've always liked the AC20/AC30 amp family for "slightly broken up but still clear" tones. I've also used Badgers and Dumble models for roughly the same amount of gain (with pretty low gain settings), but I find those slightly thicker sounds to get in the way of that string-by-string clarity.

Almost any of the "clean" and non-MV amps can get there with enough gain (e.g. the Fenders models) , though on many you will need to really be careful about tuning the main eq controls to keep the bass in check.
 
AC20 and AC30 never get quite clean or very distorted. They seem to live in an area where you can use the guitar volume to make them more clean or less clean. I play the AC30 about 90% of the time in my gigging band over a big range of songs, and multiple guitars. Lots of feel and presence.
 
It looks like he's using a Dr Z Maz 38 in that video. The FM9 has a model of that amp called the MR Z MZ-38, that would probably work really well for the tone you're describing. There's also a great factory preset using that amp.
 
+1 on the Nuclear Tone model (Swart Space Tone). The Deluxe Verb models, as well as most of the Plexi models, work great for these tones too. Using an Alnico (Celestion Blue) or 'Class A' IR with a Plexi model can sound really good.
 
bluesk165 said:
Among the FM9's drives or amplifiers, are there any that are not very clean and somewhat dirty
even if the gain is small?
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I understand the tone in the video you posted, but I don't understand the words. It sounds like you're saying you want a low-gain tone when the amp is set for low gain. Isn't that kinda how all amps work? :)

bluesk165 said:
When I sing songs like pop songs or blues, I try to express the harmony well without the chords jumping out.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I can't interpret that either.


The tone in the video is is a low-gain tone. Some would call it edge-of-breakup. Most of the Fender or Plexi-style models will do that wonderfully. Mr. Zito is playing a Dr. Z amp. Those are great at this also.
 
I came across a preset on my FM3 the other day which got my attention (even though I can't find the preset now) that got me thinking about this low gain/drive question.
So, to try this idea.
I have made a very simple drive, amp, and cab preset with 2 scenes.
Scene 1 has the drive block in front of the amp, as you would normally expect.
Scene 2 has the drive block in parallel.

I must stress at this point that I have no idea of what I am doing, I am an idiot blah blah blah... but who says that you can't route your signal chain in this way? In the Fractal World, you can do whatever you want!
 

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Dixiethedog said:
I came across a preset on my FM3 the other day which got my attention (even though I can't find the preset now) that got me thinking about this low gain/drive question.
So, to try this idea.
I have made a very simple drive, amp, and cab preset with 2 scenes.
Scene 1 has the drive block in front of the amp, as you would normally expect.
Scene 2 has the drive block in parallel.

I must stress at this point that I have no idea of what I am doing, I am an idiot blah blah blah... but who says that you can't route your signal chain in this way? In the Fractal World, you can do whatever you want!
Click to expand...
I will try this ASAP. Thanks for file.
 
Rex said:
I understand the tone in the video you posted, but I don't understand the words. It sounds like you're saying you want a low-gain tone when the amp is set for low gain. Isn't that kinda how all amps work? :)

Sorry, I can't interpret that either.

The tone in the video is is a low-gain tone. Some would call it edge-of-breakup. Most of the Fender or Plexi-style models will do that wonderfully. Mr. Zito is playing a Dr. Z amp. Those are great at this also.
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@Rex,

You may need to forgive the OP; he did say in his original post that it was difficult trying to express what he means in words.

I think we can agree that his goal is to try to locate an amp with less headroom (e.g. closer to EOB at lower volumes than higher ones) and that will sound like a "blues amp" (read: some overdrive or distortion) at earlier volumes than with higher MV or level.

The reason I suggested a lower-wattage tube amp config is that typically lower wattage amps will reach EOB much sooner at lower volumes if the circuit is designed that way. My gut feeling tells me there are only a few little things that influence a lower wattage amp's behavior...the Swart, the Badger, any 12 to 25W amp may be more of what the OP is looking for.

That being said, is there a list of lower wattage amps in TFM? If not, an addition of that if a future revision of TFM might prove invaluable for folks who desire results like the OP's.
 
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bleujazz3 said:
@Rex,

You may need to forgive the OP; he did say in his original post that it was difficult trying to express what he means in words.
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Forgive? Of course. But the difficulty of clear communication doesn’t eliminate the need for clear communication.


bleujazz3 said:
I think we can agree that his goal is to try to locate an amp with lower headroom (e.g. closer to EOB at lower volumes than higher ones) and that will sound like a "blues amp" (read: some overdrive or distortion) at earlier volumes than with higher MV or level.
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That’s one possible interpretation, but it’s not clear that it’s the right interpretation. The OP wants a “not very clean and somewhat dirty” sound, and he wants that when “the gain is small,” which is the definition of not very clean and somewhat dirty.

Another possible interpretation is that he wants this tone when a certain knob is at a low setting. That seems to be a bit of an arbitrary requirement, and a “use your ears, not your eyes” situation.

You said that he wants this tone “at earlier volumes.” Does that mean at lower volumes? That’s what Level is for. You can achieve any tone at any volume.
 
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Headroom and volume are completely independent in the Fractal universe. You can make pretty much any amp hit edge of breakup. You can drive a Twin Reverb model into breakup just as easily as a Tweed Champ since output volume can be set wherever you want with any tone.
 
Rex said:
Forgive? Of course. But the difficulty of clear communication doesn’t eliminate the need for clear communication.



That’s one possible interpretation, but it’s not clear that it’s the right interpretation. The OP wants a “not very clean and somewhat dirty” sound, and he wants that when “the gain is small,” which is the definition of not very clean and somewhat dirty.

Another possible interpretation is that he wants this tone when a certain knob is at a low setting. That seems to be a bit of an arbitrary requirement, and a “use your ears, not your eyes” situation.

You said that he wants this tone “at earlier volumes.” Does that mean at lower volumes? That’s what Level is for. You can achieve any tone at any volume.
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I think if we ask the right questions, it'll help the OP articulate what he's trying to say. It's important to remember that we each learn at our own pace, and that students of FAS experience frustration when they can't grasp a concept or understand something easily. It's like trying to explain psychology to a mathematics student.

And intentionally, I did say "earlier volumes" to emphasize the need for good communication. Lower volumes is the correct answer, though the OP did say he'd like better tone with some dirt at what I perceived was "less gain." What gave me pause to think was his description of "when the gain is small." Is he asking for more headroom, or the same headroom where the EOB occurs at lower volumes?

It might help us if we ask what examples of amps does he prefer, so as to gain insight regards what type of tone he is after. JNC's Dweezil Bassguy video may help him in his search, or introduce an entirely new flavor.
 
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Just to add another one : DC30, used often "enough" instead of an AC30.
Maybe check Marco Fanton's "Country" patch or get a DC30 patch from the à axechange site. Burgs patches are very good also in this domain. Personally I took the FXIII version of Marco Fanton as it has all the plex delays included, then converted to FM3 limiting the FX blocks to my needs.
 
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