Noob Question: Using real tube amp but need output to FOH

MASSDEFECT

MASSDEFECT

Member
Hey guys! Fractal noobie here.

I currently use a PV 5150 as a power amp. I use only preamp modeling then I use conventional guitar cabs. I know that we can both have output to a conventional guitar speaker (cab sim off) and to PA (cab sim on) assuming you have the power amp sims on.

But since I'm using only preamp models, is it possible to output to the front of house with Power amp sims on and Cab Sims on?
 
You can do both at once.

Turn cab and power amp sims on, put a cab block at the end of your chain and a parallel effects loop block that doesn't connect or output to anything. Use output 1 to FOH and output 2 (effects send) to your power amp and cab.
 
cataclysm said:
You can do both at once.

Turn cab and power amp sims on, put a cab block at the end of your chain and a parallel effects loop block that doesn't connect or output to anything. Use output 1 to FOH and output 2 (effects send) to your power amp and cab.
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But wouldn't that also turn the power amp sim on through my tube power amp and 4x12?
 
It will, but running the power amp sim has little effect on your tone or sound when running into a real power amp and cab, and if anything I prefer it!
 
Thanks for the help man! But power amp sims on doesn't sound so good with the 5150 at least with the patch I am using.
 
I've tried everything this afternoon trying to get the AX8 hooked up using my Bogner Atma 4cm and send an Amp and Cab sim direct to front of house (with all the effects I would use with my amp etc) but no such luck... Has anybody managed to do this? Even a basic patch separating both outputs so left amp and right foh?
Cheers!
 
KamWithAK!!! said:
I've tried everything this afternoon trying to get the AX8 hooked up using my Bogner Atma 4cm and send an Amp and Cab sim direct to front of house (with all the effects I would use with my amp etc) but no such luck... Has anybody managed to do this? Even a basic patch separating both outputs so left amp and right foh?
Cheers!
Click to expand...


Yeah! Same problem here. Hopefully somebody here can clarify it. :)
 
Why are you using 4cm? Typically I would use 4cm if I was using the preamp in the guitar rig, but if you are simply using the 5150 as a power amp (effects return) wouldn't the 4cm not be needed? Could you then use the fx loop of the ax8 to send post preamp ax8 signal to your amp, and then use main outputs for foh?
 
bigbadorange said:
Why are you using 4cm? Typically I would use 4cm if I was using the preamp in the guitar rig, but if you are simply using the 5150 as a power amp (effects return) wouldn't the 4cm not be needed? Could you then use the fx loop of the ax8 to send post preamp ax8 signal to your amp, and then use main outputs for foh?
Click to expand...

Tried 4CM but mainly use power amp/effects return. Been grasping the manual and I think basically it says that yeah, you can use a power amp and send another output to the FOH but that is if your power amp 4x12 signal also has power amp sim on.

But since, Im only using a preamp sim (PA off, CAB off), my question is can the AX8 output a full amp and cab sim to the FOH while Im running a conventional Preamp sim on stage.
 
MASSDEFECT said:
Tried 4CM but mainly use power amp/effects return. Been grasping the manual and I think basically it says that yeah, you can use a power amp and send another output to the FOH but that is if your power amp 4x12 signal also has power amp sim on.

But since, Im only using a preamp sim (PA off, CAB off), my question is can the AX8 output a full amp and cab sim to the FOH while Im running a conventional Preamp sim on stage.
Click to expand...

I am thinking something like this may be a good start. I am not home now, and found this online. In this case fxloop sends to your 5150 and use mains for foh.
foh-amp6.png
 
MASSDEFECT said:
my question is can the AX8 output a full amp and cab sim to the FOH while Im running a conventional Preamp sim on stage.
Click to expand...

No it can't. The preamp/poweramp can't be split, and there is only one amp instance in the AX8. If you need the poweramp sim for one feed/route, it will be on everywhere.

If your amp has a slave out (or if not, use a load box DI - http://www.suhr.com/amplifiers-for-electric-guitars/Reactive-Load/), you can send the full preamp sim + real poweramp signal back into the AX8 to get cab treatment and be sent to FOH.

Guitar >> AX8 in
AX8 FX Send (Out 2) >> 5150 FX return
5150 slave out or load box out >> AX8 FX Return (In 2)
AX8 Main Out (Out 1) >> FOH

Setup the preset chain so that you have the amp block (with poweramp disabled), feeding into the FX Loop block (which represents your poweramp), feeding into a cab which then hits the end of the chain and out to FOH.

You would need to place any FX that you want to hear on stage before the FX Loop block. They would be colored by your poweramp of course. Any effects that only need to hit FOH could be placed after the cab block.
 
I'm still a tad confused why having the power amp on your AX8 is not giving you a useable tone and sound through your 5150 poweramp...the poweramp sim shouldn't be colouring the tone that much, and if it is you can use the global eq (separate eqs for outputs 1 and 2) to shape to your liking.
 
cataclysm said:
I'm still a tad confused why having the power amp on your AX8 is not giving you a useable tone and sound through your 5150 poweramp...the poweramp sim shouldn't be colouring the tone that much, and if it is you can use the global eq (separate eqs for outputs 1 and 2) to shape to your liking.
Click to expand...

The 5150 poweramp has its own character that I like. when I turn the power amp sims on, they (the ax8 power amp sim working with the 5150 power amp sim) sound like overcompressed and "doubling" in loud volumes. the preamp sim just sounds rawer and better for my presets. in low volume i got around with playing with power amp sims on but when i turn it up, it just doesn't sound right.


philipacamaniac said:
No it can't. The preamp/poweramp can't be split, and there is only one amp instance in the AX8. If you need the poweramp sim for one feed/route, it will be on everywhere.

If your amp has a slave out (or if not, use a load box DI - http://www.suhr.com/amplifiers-for-electric-guitars/Reactive-Load/), you can send the full preamp sim + real poweramp signal back into the AX8 to get cab treatment and be sent to FOH.

Guitar >> AX8 in
AX8 FX Send (Out 2) >> 5150 FX return
5150 slave out or load box out >> AX8 FX Return (In 2)
AX8 Main Out (Out 1) >> FOH

Setup the preset chain so that you have the amp block (with poweramp disabled), feeding into the FX Loop block (which represents your poweramp), feeding into a cab which then hits the end of the chain and out to FOH.

You would need to place any FX that you want to hear on stage before the FX Loop block. They would be colored by your poweramp of course. Any effects that only need to hit FOH could be placed after the cab block.
Click to expand...

wow. this looks complicated. i will try in the weekend. or i can just buy a gt1000fx and just be done with it. lol
 
cataclysm said:
I'm still a tad confused why having the power amp on your AX8 is not giving you a useable tone and sound through your 5150 poweramp...the poweramp sim shouldn't be colouring the tone that much, and if it is you can use the global eq (separate eqs for outputs 1 and 2) to shape to your liking.
Click to expand...

Depending on the amp model used, I've found that it's the compression from the power amp section that makes it sound less good when running into a real amp and turning the sag off sounded a lot better, there will probably be a compromise setting that sounds passable into the PA and an amp though. Having the option to put the fx loop in between the pre and power amp would be handy.
 
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