NGD: Schecter Sun Valley Super Shredder Exotic

That's a great way to learn a lot. Forcing yourself to work with what you have like that. :)

I've become a big fan of the PEQ block for shaping/sculpting tones, too.
 
Just a quick update: I posted this on another thread, but in case anyone was possibly following the saga of this guitar, I did give it the college try for a while to mitigate the harshness in the Schecter Sunset Strip bridge pickup, but nothing worked in a fantastic way, except to EQ out the offending frequency (2.3 kHz), to whatever degree an amp needed. I'd find the 5150 Block Letter just needed a little, but the Brit 800 Mod needed a ton of that frequency removed to be bearable.

Finally I broke down, because even with the EQ I didn't find the pickups very versatile, similar to what I experienced with my Washburn Trevor Rabin with the JB that came in the bridge from the factory. In that Trevor Rabin I had completely fixed the problem by replacing the '59 neck and JB bridge with a set of Saturday Night Specials, and they were glorious in there. Since I'm unabashedly addicted to the use of whammy bars, I can't stand to use my Trevor Rabin, because it has a hardtail bridge, so I'm just always playing my Sun Valley Super Shredder, with it's cheap Floyd. Yesterday I finally removed the Saturday Night Specials from the Trevor Rabin and installed them to the Sun Valley Super Shredder, and they are completely awesome! Everything they gave me in the Trevor Rabin, the depth, the awesome refinement of tone, absolutely dripping with character.

The only problem is, that shitty frequency is still there. It's really most apparent when I pick the A string palm muted, so I just record a loop of me doing that and try to mitigate again with EQ. The difference is, now when I remove that frequency, the guitar just sings like the most musical thing ever. The way I'm hearing these pickups, it's like every tone I'm creating sounds like I was just jamming in the studio, and some poor schmuck in the control booth was just slaving over sculpting the most audiophile tone.

Anyway, I don't know what the hell is causing that frequency to come out like this. I had assumed it was my cheap Floyd, but @Andy Eagle wrote that this is probably not the case, and I'll take his word for it. If that's not it, then I'm at a loss.

I keep a cache of a ton of different picks that I whip out every year or so, and I'll go them to see what sounds best. They're of all different materials, brands, thicknesses, with some of the relatively expensive ones too that last a long time. I normally just use Dunlop Tortex .60 mm picks; they just sound the best with my technique, and I get a lot of different tones out of them by altering angle of attack and shit like that.

I ended up going through all my picks again, and that frequency stood out with all of them, so I didn't find a way to mitigate with a different pick.

This guitar is Black Limba in the body, with a bolt-on Wenge neck, Ebony fingerboard, with stainless steel frets. Maybe some evil combination of these woods is causing this. I hear it worst with the open A, so I'm not factoring the fret as a factor.

The most important thing for me is that EQ does take care of it. I just zap it before it hits the amp. In the end, who cares? I love this guitar otherwise, and one shitty frequency that I can remove with an EQ before the amp is fine. The easiest way to take care of this is always to use preset templates in the Axe FX III, and always to place a Filter block directly after the Input block. The reason for this over the Input EQ of the Amp Block is quick auditioning of amps; as you switch amps in the Axe FX III, the Input EQ of the Amp block will reset, and although it's only three parameters to dial in each time, it's way faster with the Filter block. Not to mention, it leaves that Input EQ of the Amp block free for what it seems to have been intended, sound sculpting, not problem fixing.

The tones I'm getting now are just incredible; they're of the kind that truly inspire me. And the guitar feels just fantastic. This neck has no finish on it (hell, neither does the body), and it feels The Best. Not to mention, I've never rewired a guitar so goddamn quickly. I never bought guitars with pickguards before this, so I was amazed at how easy it makes everything.

By the way, for anyone Googling this question in the future, since I couldn't at all find the answer online elsewhere, Jake Handler at Schecter just confirmed for me that the color codes for Schecter brand pickups are exactly the same as Seymour Duncan, so if you just want to swap with the same configuration, it's very fast and easy between those two brands.
 
State of Epicicity said:
Just a quick update: I posted this on another thread, but in case anyone was possibly following the saga of this guitar, I did give it the college try for a while to mitigate the harshness in the Schecter Sunset Strip bridge pickup, but nothing worked in a fantastic way, except to EQ out the offending frequency (2.3 kHz), to whatever degree an amp needed. I'd find the 5150 Block Letter just needed a little, but the Brit 800 Mod needed a ton of that frequency removed to be bearable.

Finally I broke down, because even with the EQ I didn't find the pickups very versatile, similar to what I experienced with my Washburn Trevor Rabin with the JB that came in the bridge from the factory. In that Trevor Rabin I had completely fixed the problem by replacing the '59 neck and JB bridge with a set of Saturday Night Specials, and they were glorious in there. Since I'm unabashedly addicted to the use of whammy bars, I can't stand to use my Trevor Rabin, because it has a hardtail bridge, so I'm just always playing my Sun Valley Super Shredder, with it's cheap Floyd. Yesterday I finally removed the Saturday Night Specials from the Trevor Rabin and installed them to the Sun Valley Super Shredder, and they are completely awesome! Everything they gave me in the Trevor Rabin, the depth, the awesome refinement of tone, absolutely dripping with character.

The only problem is, that shitty frequency is still there. It's really most apparent when I pick the A string palm muted, so I just record a loop of me doing that and try to mitigate again with EQ. The difference is, now when I remove that frequency, the guitar just sings like the most musical thing ever. The way I'm hearing these pickups, it's like every tone I'm creating sounds like I was just jamming in the studio, and some poor schmuck in the control booth was just slaving over sculpting the most audiophile tone.

Anyway, I don't know what the hell is causing that frequency to come out like this. I had assumed it was my cheap Floyd, but @Andy Eagle wrote that this is probably not the case, and I'll take his word for it. If that's not it, then I'm at a loss.

I keep a cache of a ton of different picks that I whip out every year or so, and I'll go them to see what sounds best. They're of all different materials, brands, thicknesses, with some of the relatively expensive ones too that last a long time. I normally just use Dunlop Tortex .60 mm picks; they just sound the best with my technique, and I get a lot of different tones out of them by altering angle of attack and shit like that.

I ended up going through all my picks again, and that frequency stood out with all of them, so I didn't find a way to mitigate with a different pick.

This guitar is Black Limba in the body, with a bolt-on Wenge neck, Ebony fingerboard, with stainless steel frets. Maybe some evil combination of these woods is causing this. I hear it worst with the open A, so I'm not factoring the fret as a factor.

The most important thing for me is that EQ does take care of it. I just zap it before it hits the amp. In the end, who cares? I love this guitar otherwise, and one shitty frequency that I can remove with an EQ before the amp is fine. The easiest way to take care of this is always to use preset templates in the Axe FX III, and always to place a Filter block directly after the Input block. The reason for this over the Input EQ of the Amp Block is quick auditioning of amps; as you switch amps in the Axe FX III, the Input EQ of the Amp block will reset, and although it's only three parameters to dial in each time, it's way faster with the Filter block. Not to mention, it leaves that Input EQ of the Amp block free for what it seems to have been intended, sound sculpting, not problem fixing.

The tones I'm getting now are just incredible; they're of the kind that truly inspire me. And the guitar feels just fantastic. This neck has no finish on it (hell, neither does the body), and it feels The Best. Not to mention, I've never rewired a guitar so goddamn quickly. I never bought guitars with pickguards before this, so I was amazed at how easy it makes everything.

By the way, for anyone Googling this question in the future, since I couldn't at all find the answer online elsewhere, Jake Handler at Schecter just confirmed for me that the color codes for Schecter brand pickups are exactly the same as Seymour Duncan, so if you just want to swap with the same configuration, it's very fast and easy between those two brands.
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You ever think about swapping out the cheap Floyd for a gotoh 1996t? They are not expensive and rival an OFR in quality. Andy would be the guy to ask if it could be a direct replacement using your existing posts.
 
Yes you can drop a new 1996 on Floyd special posts and it will fit just be carful to get the right length block.also you can keep the existing locknut to keep things neat and easy. Watch out for older ones in receded routs as the string lock bolts are longer and won't fit . This is easily fixed with a set of OFR bolts as they fit the 1996.
The 1996 is actually better than a new German Floyd in a number of ways but the most important one being the saddles are a lot harder. others are better tone IMO, locking studs (you won't be using them though ) locking springs and more travel in the fine tuners.
Also the frequency issue you have whilst not being directly attributable to the Floyd special may well go away with such a substantial hardware change and subsequent mass change. Circumstances like the one you have are generally the only time I recommend changing the block on a Floyd it may not help in every case but sometimes the mass and material change can fix a problem like the one you describe. This is completely against the BS claims made for the "big block" on websites but actually the only thing it is good for.
 
Thanks @Andy Eagle! Since it's a direct drop in then it would be my priority upgrade if I were in your shoes. Especially since you like using the bar...oh and the slip in bar on a gotoh is soooo nice too. I've got a FR special on my agile 7 string... blah
 
Justincase said:
Thanks @Andy Eagle! Since it's a direct drop in then it would be my priority upgrade if I were in your shoes. Especially since you like using the bar...oh and the slip in bar on a gotoh is soooo nice too. I've got a FR special on my agile 7 string... blah
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The 2021 Gotoh catalog has "new for 21" a 1996-7 , yes a seven string version.
 
I had one other thought as I was headed to sleep that maybe possibly this could have something to do with one of the pickups vibrating too freely. This could be complete bullshit, but I was trying to think of what else on my guitar could cause unwanted vibrations, and it occurred to me that this same pair of pickups had no harshness at all in my Trevor Rabin, which not only has no pickguard, but no pickup rings. On the Trevor Rabin I put air conditioner weatherseal foam (that I bought for nearly nothing at the hardware store just for this purpose) underneath each pickup, and did the standard direct mounting thing. All of a sudden now, for the first time since I was a kid I'm playing a guitar in which the pickups are just completely floating in this hollow swimming pool route on plastic, each only connected with two screws. It has me thinking: why not stuff that whole route under the pickups with foam?

One way to do some testing will be to play the open A string palm muted, in which the frequency really is most pronounced, while holding down on the bridge pickup tightly, to see if that calms it at all. I can also just try pressing on various parts of the pickguard with my left hand to see if anything else on there may possibly be ringing in a terrible way.

That's similar to how I discovered the source of extra resonance on the Floyd itself, i.e., playing a low e staccato and hearing a metal ringing sound sustain after I've muted the strings. I just kept hitting the low E staccato while pinching the trem in different places (very awkward). Eventually I found that pinching the sustain block right where it meets the baseplate eliminated the ringing. That led me to disassemble the Floyd completely and reassemble with everything tightened more, starting with the sustain block itself of course, then making sure the saddles were also further tightened. That did not fix the ringing, but at least I eliminated poor coupling as the cause.

Also, thanks @Andy Eagle for the details on the Gotoh! They make their own radiusing shims now too, the SSM-02, which I find intriguing. As is the case with so many guitars, my current Floyd is not properly radiused, and the Gotoh comes as a 350mm (13.78") radius, so it may be just fine out of the box (my neck is a 12" - 16" compound radius). From the factory the G and D strings are currently a hair low relative to the others. I love the idea of the Gotoh in so many ways, I know this is likely what I'll install when I'm able. Not to mention, wide consensus is on your side about this trem.
 
State of Epicicity said:
I had one other thought as I was headed to sleep that maybe possibly this could have something to do with one of the pickups vibrating too freely. This could be complete bullshit, but I was trying to think of what else on my guitar could cause unwanted vibrations, and it occurred to me that this same pair of pickups had no harshness at all in my Trevor Rabin, which not only has no pickguard, but no pickup rings. On the Trevor Rabin I put air conditioner weatherseal foam (that I bought for nearly nothing at the hardware store just for this purpose) underneath each pickup, and did the standard direct mounting thing. All of a sudden now, for the first time since I was a kid I'm playing a guitar in which the pickups are just completely floating in this hollow swimming pool route on plastic, each only connected with two screws. It has me thinking: why not stuff that whole route under the pickups with foam?

One way to do some testing will be to play the open A string palm muted, in which the frequency really is most pronounced, while holding down on the bridge pickup tightly, to see if that calms it at all. I can also just try pressing on various parts of the pickguard with my left hand to see if anything else on there may possibly be ringing in a terrible way.

That's similar to how I discovered the source of extra resonance on the Floyd itself, i.e., playing a low e staccato and hearing a metal ringing sound sustain after I've muted the strings. I just kept hitting the low E staccato while pinching the trem in different places (very awkward). Eventually I found that pinching the sustain block right where it meets the baseplate eliminated the ringing. That led me to disassemble the Floyd completely and reassemble with everything tightened more, starting with the sustain block itself of course, then making sure the saddles were also further tightened. That did not fix the ringing, but at least I eliminated poor coupling as the cause.

Also, thanks @Andy Eagle for the details on the Gotoh! They make their own radiusing shims now too, the SSM-02, which I find intriguing. As is the case with so many guitars, my current Floyd is not properly radiused, and the Gotoh comes as a 350mm (13.78") radius, so it may be just fine out of the box (my neck is a 12" - 16" compound radius). From the factory the G and D strings are currently a hair low relative to the others. I love the idea of the Gotoh in so many ways, I know this is likely what I'll install when I'm able. Not to mention, wide consensus is on your side about this trem.
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I put strips of foam inside my springs too as well as under my pickups. I can't stand spring noise.
 
Justincase said:
I put strips of foam inside my springs too as well as under my pickups. I can't stand spring noise.
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I do have this stuff in my trem springs, but of course since my ringing was coming from the sustain block they didn't affect any change for me. The trem springs in the Sun Valley Super Shredder are already noiseless, but when I was in the process of elimination I tried those inserts anyway. I did find those type of inserts to help on another guitar I had years ago, so I think I'd install them to any trem system. Hell, so much can go wrong on any trem, I feel like you have to become your own tech and mitigate problems no matter what. Of course I could say that about any aspect of guitar maintenance and setup haha!
 
State of Epicicity said:
I do have this stuff in my trem springs, but of course since my ringing was coming from the sustain block they didn't affect any change for me. The trem springs in the Sun Valley Super Shredder are already noiseless, but when I was in the process of elimination I tried those inserts anyway. I did find those type of inserts to help on another guitar I had years ago, so I think I'd install them to any trem system. Hell, so much can go wrong on any trem, I feel like you have to become your own tech and mitigate problems no matter what. Of course I could say that about any aspect of guitar maintenance and setup haha!
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I'm cheap. I just cut foam strips out of an old pistol case and stuffed them in the springs. 😂
Those gotoh1996t are really nice trems... especially for the money. I've replaced a couple Ibanez low trs trems with them. Much more responsive, smooth adjusting screws, and flutters well. Just an all around great trem. Only ones I prefer more are the Ibanez original edge and Ibanez edge pro....of course those are also manufactured by gotoh.
 
If anyone had used this thread as a kind of review if this model, I want to add a recent observation: the body wood may be a little soft for the screws. For the upper bout strap pin, one of the Floyd spring claw screws, and five or six pickguard screws, they are all loose at some point in the threading. The strap pin is particularly bad, it was just slowly popping out altogether. The spring claw screw comes out entirely when you loosen it too much, far earlier than the other spring claw screw. For the pickguard screws, the loose ones just kind of sit in there, and the threads don't grab at all.

This is easily fixable, but you've got to keep an eye on this. For the strap pin, the whole guitar just dropped a little while was turning a knob on the Axe FX, and I saw that it had just started to come out on its own, after I had tightened it a couple days prior. Finally I put a matchstick in there, broke it off, and rescrewed the pin and that seems to have held fine.

I don't know very much about wood in lutherie outside of the most basic common knowledge of players, so I wonder if these bodies are just not being prepared properly, with drying and whatnot, or if somehow black limba is prone to this (or some examples of black limba are), but at least for the strap pin, it's something to watch.
 
State of Epicicity said:
If anyone had used this thread as a kind of review if this model, I want to add a recent observation: the body wood may be a little soft for the screws. For the upper bout strap pin, one of the Floyd spring claw screws, and five or six pickguard screws, they are all loose at some point in the threading. The strap pin is particularly bad, it was just slowly popping out altogether. The spring claw screw comes out entirely when you loosen it too much, far earlier than the other spring claw screw. For the pickguard screws, the loose ones just kind of sit in there, and the threads don't grab at all.

This is easily fixable, but you've got to keep an eye on this. For the strap pin, the whole guitar just dropped a little while was turning a knob on the Axe FX, and I saw that it had just started to come out on its own, after I had tightened it a couple days prior. Finally I put a matchstick in there, broke it off, and rescrewed the pin and that seems to have held fine.

I don't know very much about wood in lutherie outside of the most basic common knowledge of players, so I wonder if these bodies are just not being prepared properly, with drying and whatnot, or if somehow black limba is prone to this (or some examples of black limba are), but at least for the strap pin, it's something to watch.
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Wow. With a MSRP upward of $1700 I would not be happy about that. Id expect those sort of issues if it was made in Indonesia but not in South Korea. Sorry to hear that.
 
Justincase said:
Wow. With a MSRP upward of $1700 I would not be happy about that. Id expect those sort of issues if it was made in Indonesia but not in South Korea. Sorry to hear that.
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Thanks for that. :) I'm very pessimistic about guitar quality in general, both in terms of materials and QC, so I don't feel bad or cheated. I paid $1,199.00 for mine brand new. And this is so easily fixable. But since others have bought this, I do think it's a good PSA haha. But the cheap Floyd returns to zero, it sounds awesome with a set of Saturday Night Specials I installed, the stainless steel fretwork is good, and the inherent harshness is easily dialed out by dipping 2.3 kHz before the amp, so I still love this guitar, and I'd buy it again, but I'd swap the pickups sooner haha.
 
Have you been able to try another one to see if it has harshness at the same spot?

Does adding a weight to the guitar change where the frequency sits?
 
Budda said:
Have you been able to try another one to see if it has harshness at the same spot?

Does adding a weight to the guitar change where the frequency sits?
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I haven't seen any others of this model in person; it could totally just be this guitar only. I'd imagine different cuts from the same tree could couple poorly in one instance and well in another; that's such a good thought.

You bring up a good question about shifting the frequency too. But I don't know much good that would do, because I can't imagine it eliminating the frequency, unless maybe you're thinking it could possibly be shifted to a spot where it doesn't sound ice picky, which is awesome food for thought! That's thinking along the same lines of when you're trying to mitigate dead notes...and I'm now wondering if something like one of those brass clamps could possibly help!

For what it's worth, I did also try swapping my tone cap, in case that was the problem, as @stink shared was their problem in this post, but that didn't solve it for me. That post is such an incredible thing to consider in troubleshooting though, and it's very valuable knowledge to have now.

But like I said, it's not a big deal at all to dial out with a touch of EQ before the amp. I just put the Q at 10, the frequency at 2253 Hz (I did a lot of testing to find the center), and, depending on the amp and settings I'll cut anywhere from about 3 dB to the full 20 dB (20 dB ends up being necessary for any lower gain tone on the bridge pickup. If I have to go further, I'll just reduce the Q a little until it sounds good.

Also, I did try hit the most offensive note while holding down on the pickups, to see if them floating in the pickguard could possibly have caused it, but it made no difference. Haha, I think, maybe outside of a non-wood guitar where someone has been able to engineer something intentionally acoustically pleasing, it seems like it's just too difficult a problem to mitigate in manufacturing (here I'm referring to random harshness, not dead notes, since Vigier may have the answer to dead notes in their weird neck construction).
 
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