newb: coil tap/split coil ignorance

swartzfeger

swartzfeger

Member
Gang --

First off, I'm a bassist who's an adequate guitarist but really, completely ignorant on most guitar gear matters. Now that I'm starting to record and doing most of the guitar tracks myself, I'm struggling with some basic fundamentals and possibly being held back by some long held beliefs/myths that may not be correct.

I've gone thru a few different guitars trying to find a 'tone' that will meet my needs. Nothing exotic here -- I love single coil strat tones for clean, bell-like passages (I mainly do a lot of ambient guitar with an obnoxiously progressive bass doing its thing underneath). For riffing, chugging, power chords, etc, I found that the 'strats don't do metal' maxim to be mostly/sorta true to a point.

Bought an Epiphone Les Paul and loved the tone (even with default pups) for heavier work... couldn't imagine how much more I'd like it with a set of upgraded pups. But on cleaner stuff, when I'm doing ambient washes or or clean arpeggiating? Meh. It just sounds muffled, choked/clenched. Can't quite describe it, but it's not that strat sound I like. Sold it, knowing I was going to find something closer to what I wanted.

Again, nothing exotic -- want that clean strat tone for my ambient washes, and want that death hammer humbucker when I'm laying it down.

So, to my possibly ignorant assumptions -- I've read (on the internet, no less!) that coil tap/split coils don't really give you quite the tone of a true single coil. Which, for at least one guitar I owned seemed like it might've been the case. It was a korean PRS knockoff, and the tapped single coil tone seemed 'thin' but in all the wrong ways. This is completely anecdotal, and I know for a fact the knockoff I bought was a frankenstein project, and given the DIY wiring I can't make judgments on split coils based on this guitar.

Soooo -- I'm considering a MIM or MIA HSS strat. My concern is that is the coil tap some sort of 'compromise' in any way? Does wiring affect the 'efficacy' of the humbucker's heavy side or the single coil's personality? Or should I resign myself to simply buying two guitars?

Also, I understand that the whole 20 lb. slab of mahogany with a set neck vs an alder/maple bolt-on will introduce variables. I prefer alder/maple anyway, and if an HSS can still deliver the goods in both H and S modes in the bridge I'll be a happy camper.

Full disclosure that I plan on playing actual guitars in a shop etc etc, just wanted some general feedback/guidance. Thanks!
 
Have you considered a Musicman Silhouette special? They come in HSS spec and are superb guitars. I have owned several Fender strats as I like the generic clean 'strat-like' tones but none of them played as well as my Silo. I'm not making sweeping statements about strats as I've probably been unlucky but I do think you should at least try a Silo as you may be very pleasantly surprised.
 
I just upgraded the pickups in my MIM HSS strat to Suhr V60LP's and a SSV humbucker. I had the guitar tech split the coils with a push/pull switch on the volume pot. To me the split sounds just like a single coil in the bridge and the unsplit humbucker sounds like a good screamin' 'bucker.
 
No, I haven't (didn't even know about the Silo). I became a huge, HUGE EBMM fan last year after buying a 5str Bongo fretless online, which could've been a disaster. Just a great bass with superb workmanship.

Did some quick searches (leaving for work soon) but didn't see any Silos on sweet water, musicians friend or guitar center. Will look more tonight.

I gather that most companies don't sell their guitars wired for coil tapping?
 
Most Gibson coming out now are coming coil tapped.

Tho, it takes like 5 minutes to swap out a normal pot for a push/pull. As long as the pickups are 4 or more wire, you can tap 'em.
 
Wiring a humbucker in parallel makes for a GREAT bright clean sound as well a nice twangy type tele sound with moderate gain. As said above any humbucker with 4 wires can be coil split or wired parallel. For the record, conventional humbucker wiring is series for hum canceling and more output. I use my neck p/u in parallel for my cleans. Super clear and cutting. A bit lacking in bottom end, but can be added easily and will most likely still remain clear. At least that's the case with my Dimarzio's.
 
shotgunn said:
Wiring a humbucker in parallel makes for a GREAT bright clean sound as well a nice twangy type tele sound with moderate gain. As said above any humbucker with 4 wires can be coil split or wired parallel. For the record, conventional humbucker wiring is series for hum canceling and more output. I use my neck p/u in parallel for my cleans. Super clear and cutting. A bit lacking in bottom end, but can be added easily and will most likely still remain clear. At least that's the case with my Dimarzio's.
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Shotgunn, this is *super* helpful, thank you -- I didn't know about the difference between series and parallel, tonewise. Based on your info, I'll definitely go for parallel.

Does wiring a humbucker in parallel effect the tone (less bass) only when it's tapped in single coil mode, or does it affect its humbucking mode too?

I guess what I'm getting at... would a humbucker in parallel still have more heft than a traditional single coil?

And -- do 250k/500k pots have any bearing on this at all?
 
ok, just did quite a bit of reading and learned that coil splitting and coil tapping are two totally different things. Now my question is -- is the tone I'm after better served by splitting a humbucker, or by coil tapping a single? I've got some listening to do. :)
 
swartzfeger said:
Shotgunn, this is *super* helpful, thank you -- I didn't know about the difference between series and parallel, tonewise. Based on your info, I'll definitely go for parallel.

Does wiring a humbucker in parallel effect the tone (less bass) only when it's tapped in single coil mode, or does it affect its humbucking mode too?

I guess what I'm getting at... would a humbucker in parallel still have more heft than a traditional single coil?

And -- do 250k/500k pots have any bearing on this at all?
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If you have a 4 wire humbucker, you have a beginning and end wire for each coil. So, the wires go around a bobbin which contains a magnet, about 6 or 7 thousand times and that wire has a beginning and an end. A standard humbucker takes the two coils, and wires them in series, out of phase. So think of coil 1 end wire, connected to coil 2 end wire. So, without a special switch, the humbucker has those two wires twisted together and probably a piece of tape around that connection. Then the coil 1 beginning and the coil 2 beginning wires become the new "beginning and end" of that pickup, and have to be connected to the volume or a selector switch. If the guitar has only 1 pickup, it wouldn't matter which one you thought of as "hot" and which one you thought of as "ground", but it absolutely matters, if your guitar has other pickups. Because then you could introduce phasing issues (like Brian May created when he and his father mis-wired his do it yourself guitar).

If you want a "coil-tap" you would just ground out coil2, and leave coil1 on by itself. You will have the thin single coil sound, but you will also have hum.

The next option (the one I always use) is the parallel out of phase wiring. Remember, the standard humbucker sound we all know and love, is when coil1 and 2 are wired in series, and out of phase. If you wire them in parallel, you would take the In from coil 1 and twist it to the out of coil2, then you would take the out of coil 1 and twist it together with the in from coil2. (you would also have the shield). Now, the coils are in parallel, but still out of phase, and therefore still hum-cancelling. You will have a thinner sound with less output, which will not drive the front end of your preamp as hard, thereby cleaning up the overdrive. I have all my humbuckers wired to series/parallel switches for quiet operation.

There are 6 ways to use a humbucker, but not all of them are musically useful, and so people don't bother with all of them:

Normal humbucker: 2 coils wired series, out of phase
Parallel humbucker: 2 coils wired parallel, out of phase (sounds like a single coil, but without the hum)
Coil Tap 1: ground out coil2 and coil 1 remains on - single coil with hum
Coil Tap 2: ground out coil 1 and coil 2 remains on - single coil with hum (generally folks use coil tapping with the two outside coils in the bridge and the neck, since the further they are apart from one another, the greater the cancellation)
Series in Phase - Both Coils: Can't remember why this is seldom used, probably very low power and not sonically pleasing
Parallel in Phase - Both Coils: Can't remember why this is seldom used, probably very low power and not sonically pleasing

PS - when using any humbuckers in your guitar, stick with 500K pots.
 
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swartzfeger said:
Shotgunn, this is *super* helpful, thank you -- I didn't know about the difference between series and parallel, tonewise. Based on your info, I'll definitely go for parallel.

Does wiring a humbucker in parallel effect the tone (less bass) only when it's tapped in single coil mode, or does it affect its humbucking mode too?

I guess what I'm getting at... would a humbucker in parallel still have more heft than a traditional single coil?

And -- do 250k/500k pots have any bearing on this at all?
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Yes. A humbucker in parallel will have a bit more output than most single coils. At least that is what my brain is telling me to say as my firs thoughts of the day are brewing.

With the proper switch/switches you can have ALL possibilities without having any option affect any other option that is not currently being used. It gets more complicated as you introduce more options and switches and such.

When a humbucker wired in parallel is coil tapped it is no longer wired in parallel and is now only a single coil pickup. As mentioned above, in coil splitting/coil tapping you ground one of the pickups which is like saying you 'turn it off'.

Honestly, I've never heard or read anything about a difference between coil tapping and coil splitting. I may be about to learn something new. Though at the moment I'm thinking you may have some misinformation.

As for the pot question. Think of it like this. Pot values affect your tone even when at 100% volume. This is because your signal must always be 'referenced to ground'. Without this reference there can be no signal. Think of the pot value as the amount of resistance between your signal and ground. (Because that is exactly what it is. I couldn't think of an analogy so I just said it like it is. It's a pretty simply concept.)

Even at 100% volume there is still 'some' of your tone being 'shunted to ground'. In other words, turned off, or turned down, or muted. In this case due to complex electrical engineering formulas such as, 1/2piFC and 2piFL, IIRC...) the shunting is frequency selective as in not your overall volume, but just certain frequencies. In this case your high frequencies.

The more resistance between your pickups Hot wire and ground the MORE treble/brightness you will have. The less resistance between the hot wife and ground the less treble/brightness you pickup will have

This is why humbucker, which are characteristically more dark than single coils, typically use a 500k pot, and sometimes, rarely a 1M pot. This is also why single coil guitars have 250k pots. It warms them up a bit. I've never heard a single coil pickup wired to a 500k pot. Probably with good reason. It would probably sound AWFUL. Too bright and shrill. A Strat would be considered a weapon and would likely destroy the tympanic membrane of all who listen to it.

Or maybe it would sound lovely... To those who already suffer from MASSIVE hearing damage, particularly to the high frequency range of their hearing.

In short...

250k = warmer and is used on single coils
500k = brighter and is used on humbuckers
1M = brightest and is also used on humbucker. I've only read of a couple players using these. They were both High Gain Metal players. I believe Dimebag Darrell used 1M pots.

Please share with us/ me the link to the info you read on differences between coil tapping and split coil.

I guess some pickup manufacturer's can put a wire at say the halfway point of the coil and offer a 'tap' which is what done in transformers to offer a variety of voltages on the secondary side. I've never heard of it in a guitar pickup though. It certainly isn't something that can be easily 'modded' if the pickups don't already have it.

Hope that helps.
 
A Strat is a 25.5" bolt guitar made or alder or ash, a Les Paul is 24.75" mahogany instrument with a glued in neck.

Coil splitting the Les Paul only kinda resolves a single variable and ignores the rest.

So yes it is a compromise, a very large one at that.
 
shotgunn said:
Please share with us/ me the link to the info you read on differences between coil tapping and split coil.

I guess some pickup manufacturer's can put a wire at say the halfway point of the coil and offer a 'tap' which is what done in transformers to offer a variety of voltages on the secondary side. I've never heard of it in a guitar pickup though. It certainly isn't something that can be easily 'modded' if the pickups don't already have it.

Hope that helps.
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Shotgunn:

Tapping into Versatility With a Tapped Single Coil | Seymour Duncan Blog

I've seen a few other references, but this is from SD. I think some pup manufacturers (SD, and maybe Rio Grande and others?) make 'tappable' versions of their pups.

Unless I'm completely misreading this, which is definitely possible given my gear IQ. :) Basically, sounds like you have a single coil that's overwound with two hot leads -- one that taps the 'normal' output, and the other that goes for full output.

But based on all the helpful info you and others have offered, it sounds like I want to do a HSS with a parallel option. I'm still trying to suss out all the options, as in -- I want a good, solid H for heavier rhythm work, but I want to make sure that it delivers 90% of the 'single' coil tone I'm looking for when it's in parallel.

IOW, one of the pickups I've been hearing about that sound like it would completely satisfy what I'm looking for in a humbucker -- DiMarzio's Crunchlab -- may not be the ideal candidate for running in parallel.

This is one of those things you can't really shop for in a 'hands on' manner, so I'm really relying on internet info (eep) and youtube videos (double eep!).
 
Yeah. That is pretty much what I thought it was. I just never heard I it in a pickup. I play Dimarzio's exclusively.

Speaking of that. PM me if you need any. I can order them for you. I'll meet any price you find.
 
Sweet man, thanks. I did see you mention a dimarzio group buy the other day, so I will certainly give you a shout when the day arrives.
 
swartzfeger said:
But based on all the helpful info you and others have offered, it sounds like I want to do a HSS with a parallel option. I'm still trying to suss out all the options, as in -- I want a good, solid H for heavier rhythm work, but I want to make sure that it delivers 90% of the 'single' coil tone I'm looking for when it's in parallel.

IOW, one of the pickups I've been hearing about that sound like it would completely satisfy what I'm looking for in a humbucker -- DiMarzio's Crunchlab -- may not be the ideal candidate for running in parallel.
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The Tone Zone is a great pickup for coil splitting. Dunno what it's like in parallel though. A very fat pickup to start with, so when you split it, you get a lovely single coil sound.

Of course, the TZ is a pretty full-on pickup, so maybe you wouldn't like it in HB mode. :lol
 
A nice compromise is a Fralin Unbucker. One coil is wound pretty hot, so it doesn't lose output when split/isolated. Also, try to see if you can find a Lace Sensor Red. Lace sensors are not for everybody, but they fulfilled my need for chunk and grind, at least where a strat is concerned for me.

I second the Silhouettes. Even the Sterling range is great for the price. Plenty of Musicman stuff on MF: Music Man Silhouette Special HSS Tremolo Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend
 
Reincaster said:
A nice compromise is a Fralin Unbucker. One coil is wound pretty hot, so it doesn't lose output when split/isolated. Also, try to see if you can find a Lace Sensor Red. Lace sensors are not for everybody, but they fulfilled my need for chunk and grind, at least where a strat is concerned for me.

I second the Silhouettes. Even the Sterling range is great for the price. Plenty of Musicman stuff on MF: Music Man Silhouette Special HSS Tremolo Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend
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You know, Lace... those things, I remember 'back in the day' those things generating so much buzz (pardon the irony) but it mostly went in one ear and out the other since I'm a bassist. Now they've seemed to have fallen off the radar a bit.

Reading up on them tho, they seem really up my alley. I'm curious to hear what one in the bridge sounds like, both clean and heavy gain. Might also check out comparisons between them and the DiMarzio Area 58/61/67.
 
Ok, did a boatload of reading tonight -- it sounds like Joe Barden Pickups may be what I'm looking for. Noiseless s coils (with supposedly great single coil tone) and a Humbucker specifically designed for an HSS setup that complements their s coil perfectly when the H is split.

What I found interesting:

Remember, HB Two/Tone is not coil-split (i.e. one coil is turned off to derive a faux single-coil tone). Rather, it uses coil-tapping to keep BOTH coils always operational regardless of mode. This approach provides hum-cancellation in either mode, as well as authentic single coil tones similar to our S-Deluxe or T-Style pickups.
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