New user's impressions - some weird choices made by Fractal?

Fretts

Member
Never used any Fractal product before this week, but my FM9 arrived 4 days ago. There are some really puzzling choices apparent to me in my first impressions of this product and the Fractal Way Of Doing Things!

For one, does anybody else think it's baffling and backwards to have a button labeled with where you aren't instead of where you are? I'm talking about the button that says "Scenes" when you are in Presets, and "Presets" when you are not in Presets, you are in Scenes. When I look down at this device, I want it to tell me or remind me what mode we are in, not where the exit is. I suppose one can unlearn common sense and intuition and learn to do things backwards, but it's just another layer to have to get through to learn this thing.

Another is the total absence of any hardwired failsafe bypass button. In a live situation, I always want to know I can bypass any piece of gear if it starts glitching or misbehaving. Digital products especially are susceptible to getting scrambled up when certain kinds of hash or noise are on the power line! I don't know the track record of this or any other Fractal product, but in my experience, the digital product hasn't been born yet that isn't vulnerable to getting scrambled when the right kind of interference shows up. Instead of such a bypass, I've been told that I can go in and construct, in software, a Scene that has no effects but goes straight through, which is fine and dandy when everything is working right. But since that solution exists inside the system I might need to to escape from, it's kind of a fantasy solution.

I can see already that it's a fantastically capable and powerful machine - it seems to have every feature, tweak, option and I/O you could ever need, but the operation of it just seems to be based on... well, I really don't know what, but it's a kind of logic I haven't encountered before!

I do have some experience, I have bought every type of pedal ever made when they were new, all the way back to the Fuzz-Tone and the Echoplex, I've been making pedalboards for decades, I have and use a GigRig programmable switcher, and recently picked up a Katana MK2 50w and spent a day turning it into a real-sounding amp using their ToneLab software. So I'm not a total naïve idiot, although I do have my moments. :)

I just wonder if anybody else questions the Fractal logic at times?
 
For one, does anybody else think it's baffling and backwards to have a button labeled with where you aren't instead of where you are? I'm talking about the button that says "Scenes" when you are in Presets, and "Presets" when you are not in Presets, you are in Scenes. When I look down at this device, I want it to tell me or remind me what mode we are in, not where the exit is. I suppose one can unlearn common sense and intuition and learn to do things backwards, but it's just another layer to have to get through to learn this thing.
You know you can make the buttons do anything you want them to do right? If you want the button to say something specific or do something other than what the default function happens to be you can change it. The sensible defaults are just that.

But to answer your question: that button tells you where you'll go if you press it. If it said "Presets" when you were on the Presets layout you wouldn't know what it would do if you pressed it. It might take you to the Scenes layout or it might take you to the seventh layer of hell.

Most people already know what layout they are on based on the what the switches are showing them so dedicating a switch to telling you the name of the current layout isn't usually something people need.

But if you need it, you can make it happen. Customize it to be the thing you need it to be.

but in my experience
Your experience is minimal compared to the hours Fractal products have spent in the field. I'd say don't sweat it. If it really bugs you, put it in a $20 analog loop pedal. Then you've got your parachute rip cord. And you'll never pull it.

Instead of such a bypass, I've been told that I can go in and construct, in software, a Scene that has no effects but goes straight through, which is fine and dandy when everything is working right. But since that solution exists inside the system I might need to to escape from, it's kind of a fantasy solution.
Or you can, you know, hit the power switch and shut it off.

but the operation of it just seems to be based on..
More than a decade of design. Fractal is its own thing. They don't try to copy others. Is it perfect? Not at all. Is it impossible to learn and use? Definitely not.

I just wonder if anybody else questions the Fractal logic at times?
You'll see lots of posts about things here that ask questions about why things are the way they are. Or how to handle certain situations. Just ask your questions and I'm sure people will step up and help you out.
 
For one, does anybody else think it's baffling and backwards to have a button labeled with where you aren't instead of where you are?
Think of it like an elevator. You never press the button for the floor you’re already on. You press the button for the floor you want to go to. You will quickly learn how to tell whether you’re looking at a Scenes or Effects layout. I don’t want a button that takes me to where I already am. :)


Another is the total absence of any hardwired failsafe bypass button. In a live situation, I always want to know I can bypass any piece of gear if it starts glitching or misbehaving.
Your amps don’t have hardwired failsafe bypasses. Your amp modeler doesn’t, either. :)


Digital products especially are susceptible to getting scrambled up when certain kinds of hash or noise are on the power line! I don't know the track record of this or any other Fractal product, but in my experience, the digital product hasn't been born yet that isn't vulnerable to getting scrambled when the right kind of interference shows up.
Tube amps have a higher failure rate than your FM9 has. Interference doesn’t cause “scrambling” in well-designed digital gear.
 
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It makes sense for a button to be labeled with what it's going to do when you push it. More specifically Fractal gives you the option to have a switch serve multiple functions thus giving you what amounts to additional switches. If you're already on the Presets layout, you don't really need a switch to take you to the Presets layout. So they allow you to repurpose that switch. It's incredibly simple but it's also quite brilliant. But, hey, like @iaresee said you can make it say and do what you want. So no, I definitely don't see that as backwards or baffling. :)

As far as a bypass, what would you be bypassing to? Assuming the FM9 is your primary amp/effects rig, what would you want to do? Press a switch and then be sending your guitar's DI signal to the board? If you want to be able to send your signal quickly to a backup if the FM9 should fail, there are myriad ways to do that. An example would be to use an a/b switch. Primary FM9 goes down, hit the a/b switch and send your signal to the backup rig.

Anyway, welcome to the Fractalverse! It's a wondrous journey!
 
Main screen shows where you are. Switch screens show where you will go.

Many enjoy seeing a switch labeled “Scenes” and pressing it takes you to scenes, rather than seeing a button labeled “presets” and pressing it does…. Hmm I forgot…

Previous generations of Axe-add had a bypass button, but it seems it was rarely used, and more often caused problems and questions of “why is my guitar totally dry.” Some discussions resulted in Bypass not being needed by majority.

There’s a lot of smart stuff in here with implemented feedback directly from our guitar heroes who use the same gear, as well as everyday people too.
 
You know you can make the buttons do anything you want them to do right? If you want the button to say something specific or do something other than what the default function happens to be you can change it. The sensible defaults are just that.

But to answer your question: that button tells you where you'll go if you press it. If it said "Presets" when you were on the Presets layout you wouldn't know what it would do if you pressed it. It might take you to the Scenes layout or it might take you to the seventh layer of hell.

Most people already know what layout they are on based on the what the switches are showing them so dedicating a switch to telling you the name of the current layout isn't usually something people need.

But if you need it, you can make it happen. Customize it to be the thing you need it to be.


Your experience is minimal compared to the hours Fractal products have spent in the field. I'd say don't sweat it. If it really bugs you, put it in a $20 analog loop pedal. Then you've got your parachute rip cord. And you'll never pull it.


Or you can, you know, hit the power switch and shut it off.


More than a decade of design. Fractal is its own thing. They don't try to copy others. Is it perfect? Not at all. Is it impossible to learn and use? Definitely not.


You'll see lots of posts about things here that ask questions about why things are the way they are. Or how to handle certain situations. Just ask your questions and I'm sure people will step up and help you out.
Thank you for the point-by-point reply, I'll take your helpful comments and learn to tailor the thing to my preferences. In fact, no -I didn't know that I could make any button do anything I like. That's good to know. And I can't argue with your point that Fractal is its own thing. Boy, is it ever.
 
Buttons to me would always be where I want to go and not where I am at... That being said you can customize what you want.

Have been using modelling gear for years, (and maybe I am lucky) but I have never had the modeler fail playing live. I have had an amp power supply fail live once...

When I was using rack hardware I always had a power conditioner in the rack...

Regards..
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Re the idea that buttons should reflect where you currently are, not where the button will take you, how would that work when there are multiple buttons? Would they all show the preset you're on?

So aside from being able to change what every button does and how it's labeled, the standard model of "press the Scene 2 button to go to scene 2 and the Scene 3 button to go to scene 3" makes a lot of sense to me.
 
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When I look down at this device, I want it to tell me or remind me what mode we are in, not where the exit is.
I think you have a misconception here. There are no "modes"... There are switch layouts.

When you select a layout, the switch definitions are set as defined for the layout.

Any switch can have any function and you can define how the labels of those switches display.

If you use the factory layouts, it's pretty obvious when you're in the Presets layout by the switch definitions. Similarly for the Scenes layout.

Having a button for "Presets" while using the Presets layout makes no sense as it would really have no function... Pressing it would do nothing.

That being said, the Layouts are completely customizable, so if you want a Presets button in your Presets layout, you can put one there and the LED ring will be lit when it's the active Layout.

Among the other manuals, I would suggest reading this one to learn about layouts and switch definition capabilities:

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downlo.../Fractal-Audio-Footswitch-Functions-Guide.pdf
 
OP:

Re: Failsafe Stand-By Switch = Muted Tuner. Good insurance: Dedicated & reliable clean power source (surge protector / power conditioner) to prevent said possible glitches.

Echoing previous sentiments: The footswitch you press is designed to take you to whatever's (wherever's) programmed into that switch. Why would you need a switch to take you somewhere it's not programmed?

Regards logic: Yes, it's not only good to question logic and authority, but to reason for yourself with accurate knowledge the how-to's and what-if's of building presets and scenes.

The wiki pages of Fractal are filled to the max with helpful info regards the ins, outs and workarounds for your FAS products.

Also, if viewing videos helps you learn better, Cooper Carter's MasterClass for FAS products will help you. It's money well spent trying to learn the whys and wherefores of FAS products.
 
Buttons to me would always be where I want to go and not where I am at...
For me, it depends. For layout switches and preset switches, yes, "where is it going?" is most useful.

For bank switches, function. Bank+1, Bank-1, like that.

For channel increment/decrement switches, I prefer to know where I am, since I know where it goes from there....
 
@Fretts
Welcome to Fractal Audio products, and to the forum. As you can see, people are always willing to help… and have a sense of humor! Keep it light, wade in at your own speed. You’ll find your way, as we all did!
 
With scene revert, I often hit the "where I am" button because it resets any scene fx changes I've made since initial load.
Good point... But I suspect you typically have multiple scene switches and scenes are a case where knowing where you are is important.
 
Good point... But I suspect you typically have multiple scene switches and scenes are a case where knowing where you are is important.
Not the same thing, but I have scene revert off, and semi frequently do recall the same preset I'm on, to get back to the saved version. In that case I need to know what preset I'm on, but not what scene.
 
Not the same thing, but I have scene revert off, and semi frequently do recall the same preset I'm on, to get back to the saved version. In that case I need to know what preset I'm on, but not what scene.
Yep... And in both cases pressing the "active" switch actually does something.
 
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