New Guitar Synthesizer

[mesabassman]

I would rather have a second FM3 and hope that the synth block gets better and better.

 

[Piing]

If you look closely though the “Tone Studio” software, it has a laundry list of acoustic and electric guitar sounds listed, just like the GP-10. Sure looks like guitar modeling to me, but I can’t verify anything not having one. Hopefully the details will come out soon enough.

No. These sounds at the "Tone Studio" are just sampled guitar sounds that can be triggered by pitch-to-MIDI guitar, a MIDI keyboard, MIDI flute, etc.

The GM-800 (MIDI guitar) has absolutely nothing to do with the GP-10 guitar modeler. Guitar modeling uses a similar technology as the Axe-FX or any other device modeling an amplifier. The Axe-FX doesn't trigger samples to emulate the amplifiers, it transforms the original waveform coming from the guitar, same as the GP-10 does to emulate different guitar sounds. Unlike pitch-to-MIDI, modeling technology preserves all the playing nuances.

The GP-10, SY-1000, VG-99 have additional guitar-to-MIDI capabilities (to trigger external sound modules, since they do not have internal PCM sounds or samples, like the GR-55 or this new GM-800), but that is another story.

BTW: full documentation and user manuals are already available
https://www.boss.info/us/products/gm-800/support/
For further info:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35961.0

 

[guitarno]

Okay - not the same process as the GP-10. So the GM-800 is triggering samples... not actual modeling. That's interesting.

 

[Piing]

It's just a ROMpler inside of their current tech.

Exactly! That should be at the header of all FAQ about the GM-800

In other words: it is the modern replacement of the GR-30

They call it "Guitar Synth", but that term can be confusing because it is used for several different things. There is a Guitar Synth at the Axe-FX, but it is not a pitch-to MIDI guitar synth, it is a "Guitar Synth". The Roland VG and the Boss GP-10 or SY-100 are also called Guitar Synths, but they are not pitch-to MIDI; they are guitar modelers, not ROMplers. The Boss SY-1 is also a Guitar Synth, but it is neither of the above.

 

[Piing]

I like to share this video every time we talk about MIDI-Guitar Vs Guitar Modeler (VG) because it is unlisted, so it is only accessible if you have the link. It is a pity, because it is not widely known.

This is what the GM-800 cannot do:

 

[JTI]

It's just a ROMpler inside of their current tech.
As for performance, I'll believe it when I play it.

You know how you beat them at their own game? Release the Axe FX Polyphonic Synth Kraken

 

[Admin M@]

You know how you beat them at their own game? Release the Axe FX Polyphonic Synth Kraken

That is a game I would sit out. It was, IMO won squarely on the technical front in the 90s by András Szalay (whose tech now resides with Fishman, I believe). Yet guitar synth in all of its forms still remains a niche within a niche within a niche.

 

[Rock Chalk]

$750 for the GM-800 and $300 for the pick-up would be great if it was doing the heavy lifting.....but just triggering samples?......No Thanks.

 

[WKSmith]

That is a game I would sit out. It was, IMO won squarely on the technical front in the 90s by András Szalay (whose tech now resides with Fishman, I believe). Yet guitar synth in all of its forms still remains a niche within a niche within a niche.

I had no idea he was behind both Shandow and Axom pitch to midi conversion and also Fishmans aura and wireless midi tech

That is very cool !

 

[Rex Rox]

That is a game I would sit out. It was, IMO won squarely on the technical front in the 90s by András Szalay (whose tech now resides with Fishman, I believe). Yet guitar synth in all of its forms still remains a niche within a niche within a niche.

I agree with the guitar synth part, but you have to separate out midi-guitar. That has a whole bunch of very practical uses for composition, spitting out chord charts automagically transcribed from what you played, etc.

I write a good amount of jazz. With a midi guitar I can set up all the voices I need in my DAW (rhodes, frettless/acoustic bass, even horn sections) - all transposed appropriately (e.g. horns up or down by a fith, etc.). With a good midi setup capable of tracking properly with fingerpicking you can play a whole arrangement, hear it as you play it and capture the notes/chords for charts or sheet music at the same time.

Saves me a ton of time and spurs some serious creativity while writing too. In this case you really should try it at home! Need a divided pickup to do it right though - pitch to midi won't get it done.

 

[Sleestak]

I still have a Fender "Roland-Ready" strat, which is the version with a factory-installed (and optimized) GK2 pickup and side-mounted jacks - both 1/4 inch and 13-pin. I used it quite a bit in my touring band back in the late 90s and early 2000s but it's been mostly sitting in its case since then. If anybody is in the market for one, ping me and I'll send photos / specs. I'll bundle a deal with my expanded GR-1 synth and new 13-pin cable.

 

[hippietim]

That is a game I would sit out. It was, IMO won squarely on the technical front in the 90s by András Szalay (whose tech now resides with Fishman, I believe). Yet guitar synth in all of its forms still remains a niche within a niche within a niche.

It’s a niche largely because it just isn’t good enough for most guitarists that just want to pound away. Even the Fishman is not good enough. The popularity of the EHX 9 and Boss SY stomp boxes show that players want this stuff.

I have the Fishman system and don’t really use it much because the software is pretty crappy and the support for hardware synths is a complete afterthought. Fishman does not sell a complete solution - Roland always has.

I have preordered the GM-800. Hopefully I don’t have to play as good as Alex Hutchins to use it

 

[hippietim]

Or needing a special pickup at all...

I'm pretty happy with Midi Guitar 2.

MIDI Guitar 2 is excellent. For most stuff it’s better than the Fishman. It does have a lot of limitations in what you can do but if you just want a straight forward solution it’s hard to beat.

 

[hippietim]

I would rather have a second FM3 and hope that the synth block gets better and better.

It is never going to sound like an acoustic piano.

 

[unix-guy]

It’s a niche largely because it just isn’t good enough for most guitarists that just want to pound away.

The popularity of the EHX 9 and Boss SY stomp boxes show that players want this stuff.

I had the same thoughts...

 

[Rex Rox]

So having been a long time midi capable guitar user I have an important tip to improve tracking with VSTs. This tip won't apply with a GK/divided pickup and a hardware guitar synth unless you are also using the midi out from the guitar synth to drive virtual instruments in your DAW.

Way back when I was jumping into using a GK, I used to just do everything on channel 1. GK interfaces have a setting where every string will be mapped to a single channel or you can set it to 6 separate channels (1 per string). With everything mapped to 1 channel I found that tracking sucked. Somehow this seems to overwhelm the DAW/VST. I think it is all the pitchbend and aftertouch messages that a GK generates.

So I graduated from that to the GK interface set to a separate channel for each string and a midi instrument track with the midi input channel set to "any" (in Cubase). This was way better but still not as quick tracking as I would like.

Then I tried using what is called a "rack instrument" in Cubase loaded with 6 separate instances of the desired patch, 1 for each channel/string. Example: Halion or Kontakt (both rack instruments) loaded with 6 individual Grand Piano patches - each instance set to a different channel (channels 1 to 6 corresponding to each string). You can still use 1 midi track with midi channel set to "any ", that track's midi input will be the midi port for your GK interface/synth and midi output is set to the rack instrument.

This provides the fastest and most accurate tracking of all. At least in Cubase. I can only guess it is the way Cubase is handling/routing incoming midi messages and/or back to that pitchbend/aftertouch data swarm.

After reading complaints in a Godin forum a long time ago, I posted something similar and everyone that tried it said their tracking improved significantly.

 

[GitGuy513]

I don’t have to play as good as Alex Hutchins to use it

He definitely one those guys that makes it look easy. Along with flashy video editing.

I would like to hear your thoughts when you get it.

 

[fcs101]

I've been checking for new reviews of this unit since seeing this thread, but it's crickets. I'm only seeing all the usual suspects. I like to see reviews from actual users vs the promoters. Just makes me wonder how it's being received.

 

[GitGuy513]

I've been checking for new reviews of this unit since seeing this thread, but it's crickets. I'm only seeing all the usual suspects. I like to see reviews from actual users vs the promoters. Just makes me wonder how it's being received.

Did you see Leon Todd’s demo?

 

[hippietim]

I've been checking for new reviews of this unit since seeing this thread, but it's crickets. I'm only seeing all the usual suspects. I like to see reviews from actual users vs the promoters. Just makes me wonder how it's being received.

There’s hardly any in the wild yet. I don’t know of anyone that’s received one that they purchased.