New Fractal User - Troubleshooting No Sound on Downloaded Presets

[mmcabee]

Hi Everyone,

Firstly, thank you for taking the time out of your day to help a new Fractal user.

I purchased an FM3 a few months ago and I absolutely love the thing, its really opened up what I can do with my guitar. Admittedly, one of the main reasons I bought the unit was to purchase STL Tones' Jon Deiley preset pack. The plan was to use FractTool to convert the Axe FX II/III patches to use on my FM3. I seem to be encountering issue after issue trying to get this to work, as I am getting no sound other then what sounds like my guitar DI. I've seen other posts from Fractal newbies in the past that report the same issue (no sound on downloaded presets), but I cannot for some reason identify what the issue is for me while everyone else seemingly is solving their issue.

For example, here is one of the presets that I converted and loaded into my FM3:


I'm not seeing anything weird that would be inhibiting sound coming from the preset, and when I monitor the signal levels under Layout --> Meter, ever block emits some degree of sound, albeit the levels are very low for some reason. Additionally, I noticed in a lot of other's posts it looked like the IR's not being loaded was the culprit of there being no audio, but I don't necessarily the case for me. As you can see in the screenshot, the cab is configured to use User Cab #6. I went to check to make sure there is indeed a cab under #6 in my "Manage Cabs" section on my fractal, and the cabs are listed there:



Granted, the cab names are really hard to discern so Im not too sure if something got janked up in the import and what is supposed to be cab #6 isnt really cab #6, but you would think thats logically how FractTool and subsequently FM3-Edit should load the IR's. When I change the IR set in the preset to be a factory preset IR, I get a substantial boost in volume (so something must be janky there) but its like the amp and drive pedal aren't even present in the signal chain, with no audible distortion or anything. For reference, here are the settings for both my drive and amp (which were taken from the preset conversion, I haven't changed anything):






Thanks again for any assistance anybody can provide. I'm hesitant to go to STL Tones for assistance considering what I bought from them was not an official FM3 patch pack, I don't think they will really help.

Edit 1: Added patches to assist with troubleshooting.

 

[fractalz]

Missing cab will be silent.

if there is an expression pedal expected, not having one may mean a block has 0 volume.

 

[Rex]

...when I monitor the signal levels under Layout --> Meter, ever block emits some degree of sound, albeit the levels are very low for some reason.

In which block is the signal losing level?

 

[mmcabee]

Thanks for the replies. Responses below:

Missing cab will be silent.

if there is an expression pedal expected, not having one may mean a block has 0 volume.

I don't think there is a block indicating there should be an expression pedal. Also, from the screenshots above, doesn't it indicate that the cab is not actually missing? Or am I missing something and/or blind?

In which block is the signal losing level?

They are all actually at the same signal level, it's not like there is a point where it is high, hits a certain block, and then drops in signal. I hope i'm describing that right lol.

 

[Rex]

They are all actually at the same signal level, it's not like there is a point where it is high, hits a certain block, and then drops in signal. I hope i'm describing that right lol.

If all of those levels are exceptionally low, that indicates that the signal coming into your FM3 is very low. Where is your guitar's volume knob set at?

 

[Rex]

I don't think there is a block indicating there should be an expression pedal.

Look in Controllers > Modifiers. Anything assigned there?

Also, from the screenshots above, doesn't it indicate that the cab is not actually missing? Or am I missing something and/or blind?

@fractalz was saying that if you didn't have a cab assigned, you wouldn't have any sound at all, and that since you do ahve sound, that's probably not the problem. Though it does seem odd that you have the same cab written (apparently) to all of your user cab slots.

 

[mmcabee]

Knobs on the guitar are maxed, and the input level of of level 1 is almost maxed out, looking top-down to the unit, the knob is in the 3/4 o'clock position. I will check the Controllers > Modifiers option soon, thank you for the reccomendation. What I also might do is remove the STL IR's, and add one in by itself to test. I threw all of the IR's into FracTool and I noticed it is loading IR's like this:



It almost looks like the IR's are not getting loaded in the order they should be, like the first IR (001) that is getting loaded is 054, the second (002) is 055, if this incrementing is correct, it might be the fact that the IR being referenced in the patch is not exactly the true IR, i.e. IR 001 in the patch is not technically IR 001 in the cab listing, do you think that might be possible?

 

[Rex]

Just select one of the factory cabs instead. See if you get more volume.

 

[mmcabee]

Just select one of the factory cabs instead. See if you get more volume.

So when I select a factory cab, it boosts the volume but everything is still clean, its like its not even recognizing that the amp and drive is there in the signal chain. It's odd because if I remove the amp and drive models, and add them back in at stock settings, I get distorted tones. But of course the whole point here is to have as close to Jon's settings as possible, so doing that really defeats the purpose of having purchased these patches. But its like the whole patch is just... bugged.

I really think I need to nuke the presets and cabs and work with things one at a time, just convert one patch and its corresponding cab IR and try and identify what the issue is. Nothing makes sense right now haha

 

[pauly]

Hi @mmcabee
What happens if you click the solo button in the cab?

Thanks
Pauly

Hi Everyone,

Firstly, thank you for taking the time out of your day to help a new Fractal user.

I purchased an FM3 a few months ago and I absolutely love the thing, its really opened up what I can do with my guitar. Admittedly, one of the main reasons I bought the unit was to purchase STL Tones' Jon Deiley preset pack. The plan was to use FractTool to convert the Axe FX II/III patches to use on my FM3. I seem to be encountering issue after issue trying to get this to work, as I am getting no sound other then what sounds like my guitar DI. I've seen other posts from Fractal newbies in the past that report the same issue (no sound on downloaded presets), but I cannot for some reason identify what the issue is for me while everyone else seemingly is solving their issue.

For example, here is one of the presets that I converted and loaded into my FM3:
View attachment 86727

I'm not seeing anything weird that would be inhibiting sound coming from the preset, and when I monitor the signal levels under Layout --> Meter, ever block emits some degree of sound, albeit the levels are very low for some reason. Additionally, I noticed in a lot of other's posts it looked like the IR's not being loaded was the culprit of there being no audio, but I don't necessarily the case for me. As you can see in the screenshot, the cab is configured to use User Cab #6. I went to check to make sure there is indeed a cab under #6 in my "Manage Cabs" section on my fractal, and the cabs are listed there:

View attachment 86728

Granted, the cab names are really hard to discern so Im not too sure if something got janked up in the import and what is supposed to be cab #6 isnt really cab #6, but you would think thats logically how FractTool and subsequently FM3-Edit should load the IR's. When I change the IR set in the preset to be a factory preset IR, I get a substantial boost in volume (so something must be janky there) but its like the amp and drive pedal aren't even present in the signal chain, with no audible distortion or anything. For reference, here are the settings for both my drive and amp (which were taken from the preset conversion, I haven't changed anything):

View attachment 86729
View attachment 86730
View attachment 86731
View attachment 86732

Thanks again for any assistance anybody can provide. I'm hesitant to go to STL Tones for assistance considering what I bought from them was not an official FM3 patch pack, I don't think they will really help.

 

[Rex]

You know, this might have something to do with the lack of distortion...

 

[blackmoreguitar]

You know, this might have something to do with the lack of distortion...

View attachment 86737

Was about to post the very same, Rex beat me to it; try cranking the drive! I was also wondering if the original presets have scenes set up for different levels of drive, like low drive on scene one crunch scene 2, lead scene......etc? Maybe something got lost in the conversion process?

 

[Rex]

I was also wondering if the original presets have scenes set up for different levels of drive, like low drive on scene one crunch scene 2, lead scene......etc? Maybe something got lost in the conversion process?

Good one. Or maybe those scenes are still there, waiting to be discovered.

 

[mmcabee]

Hey Everybody,

So many more people then I initially anticipated came out to give me a hand, so thank you all!

In response to some of the comments that have been posted while I was away from my PC:

Look in Controllers > Modifiers. Anything assigned there?

Negative, nothing.

What happens if you click the solo button in the cab?

Thanks for the recommendation, no change in audio (or lack thereof) was detected : (

You know, this might have something to do with the lack of distortion...

Using the 808 more as a boost to the amp, again these are settings from Jon Deiley of Northlane so I'm trying not to change too much, if not anything.

I was also wondering if the original presets have scenes set up for different levels of drive, like low drive on scene one crunch scene 2, lead scene......etc? Maybe something got lost in the conversion process?

Great point, I thought something similar myself, but I checked and there's no scenes in any of the presets unfortunately.


So, after some digging this morning, I think I've stumbled upon some type of bug/issue that likely has stemmed from the conversion process. For testing, I downloaded tones that all of us can download from Axe Exchange, all of the ones from Periphery. I targeted Nolly's 5150 patch for testing. I converted the preset using FracTool and saved the preset as an FM3 preset and loaded into my unit through FM3-Edit. It loaded fine, I added my input and output blocks, as well as a factor Bogner cab. Despite there being a drive pedal (T808) AND a high-gain amp in the signal chain (PVH 6160), it literally sounds like my guitar output is straight DI. I know my guitar has low-output pickups (Gretsch G5260 Baritone), but a 5150 with a drive in front of it should not sound like a DI. What gets even weirder is this: when I go to either block, so lets say my drive block, and I change the drive to something else and then change it back to the T808... I start to hear distortion. I then did the same for the amp block, changed it to something else and then back to the PVH 6160... and voila, it starts to sound like what I would expect a 5150 with an OD in front of it to sound like. I actually recorded this process for you all to see, does anyone have any input on it? Because of this, I am semi-confident in assessing that this is a conversion issue with FracTool, but I would like to get everyone else's opinion on it? Also, please dont judge the playing nor audio of that clip... I definitely didn't have my audio recording setup right in OBS so the audio sounds a little... "phasey", but it's good enough to get the job done and give you all some insight into what is happening here. The video is too large for me to post here though, does anybody have any recommendations considering I cannot post links, I would just post a link to the file in my Google Drive but my account doesn't have enough posts.

EDIT: Just kidding, I was able to compress it using a different compression algorithm that made it small enough to attach to this post.

 

[Rex]

Using the 808 more as a boost to the amp, again these are settings from Jon Deiley of Northlane so I'm trying not to change too much, if not anything.

That was the Amp block I showed, not the Drive. Have another look there.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

EDIT: Just kidding, I was able to compress it using a different compression algorithm that made it small enough to attach to this post.

Just attach your preset to your original message, unzipped, along with a backup of your system settings. That way we can actually see every setting, not just the ones you showed in screen shots.

 

[mmcabee]

That was the Amp block I showed, not the Drive. Have another look there.

Apologies, missed that! Whether I boost the drive on the pedal or the amp, without initially swapping the drive and amp out and then back in, doesn't seem like its affecting the patch at all. Thanks again though for your continued attempts to help a brother out, much appreciated.

Just attach your preset to your original message, unzipped, along with a backup of your system settings. That way we can actually see every setting, not just the ones you showed in screen shots.

I can definitely do that with the Periphery patches I converted that are giving me issues. Since the Jon Deiley STL tones patches are paid for, I'm prohibited from sharing those. However, something tells me if we can iron out what is happening with the Periphery patches, that will likely help me identify what the issue is for the Jon Deiley patches.

I can easily attach the patches I converted with FracTool, but with respect to a backup of system settings, would you mind pointing me to some documentation on how to export that for you? Appreciate the help here, so don't want to give you inadequate information.

 

[mmcabee]

So I just did some quick referencing of the documentation and created a full system backup with Fractal-Bot, @Greg Ferguson. I've attached the zip archive here and will append it to my original post as well. A brief outline of the directory structure:

--> patch_assistance.zip
---> backup_config # This directory contains the full system backup of my FM3
---> *.syx files # All of the .syx files in the parent directory are the presets AFTER I converted them with FracTool. Please keep in mind that these presets don't have the input or output blocks configured, nor are there any cabs configured in the cab block for any of the presets.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

So I just did some quick referencing of the documentation and created a full system backup with Fractal-Bot, @Greg Ferguson. I've attached the zip archive here and will append it to my original post as well. A brief outline of the directory structure:

--> patch_assistance.zip
---> backup_config # This directory contains the full system backup of my FM3
---> *.syx files # All of the .syx files in the parent directory are the presets AFTER I converted them with FracTool. Please keep in mind that these presets don't have the input or output blocks configured, nor are there any cabs configured in the cab block for any of the presets.

Thank you for your help!

We don't need a full system backup, we only need that specific preset and your system configuration file. If the backup contains 3rd party presets or IRs I'd recommend deleting the message as sharing them would be bad.

---

OK, I'm looking at the presets.

For the "Nolly" presets:

• As typical, FracTool didn't create IN and OUT blocks. I added them because they're mandatory.
• The CAB block doesn't have a cab selected and is defaulting to the scratchpad, which kills all output. Using the Legacy #16 cab just because, I get sound. Resetting its output level to 0db brings up the volume.
• Resetting the Amp channel brings up the volume further and restores the character of the amp. I did a right click on the block and pulled down to Edit->Reset Channel. You need to tweak to your tastes.

In the "Jack Bowen" presets, the above apply, plus the Filter block is killing the output. Disable it and the volume returns to what I'd expect, so fiddle with that.

In "Bulb v18 Low to Mid Gain", the above also apply, except for the Filter block. The Drive block seems to be a problem as it's reducing the signal, but YMMV. In "Bulb v18 Clean", there's a weird trailing distortion as the signal fades. I couldn't pin it down.

When moving from one major firmware to another, there are a lot of internal flags and values that change. Because it's proprietary software Fractal isn't making that information available. @AlGrenadine does a valiant job trying to decipher the changes, but there's always a lag after the firmware is released as he takes apart the file and figures out the differences. I think that's what's happening here, that FracTool attempts to fix up the presets, but doesn't have the information necessary to complete the job. Resetting the Amp blocks, which had major changes in Cygnus, brings them back to their defaults. A soft reset of the BB drive blocks might help as that code was reworked prior to, and in Cygnus.

I suspect you can find equally useful sounds in the factory presets that work correctly with Cygnus. For the ones with lots of reverb and delay effects you can probably copy the blocks and their layout into a factory preset, but YMMV.

Finally, your compression algorithm isn't a standard Zip, so it'll make it harder for people to help you when they can't open the file.

 

[mmcabee]

We don't need a full system backup, we only need that specific preset and your system configuration file. If the backup contains 3rd party presets or IRs I'd recommend deleting the message as sharing them would be bad.

---

OK, I'm looking at the presets.

For the "Nolly" presets:

• As typical, FracTool didn't create IN and OUT blocks. I added them because they're mandatory.
• The CAB block doesn't have a cab selected and is defaulting to the scratchpad, which kills all output. Using the Legacy #16 cab just because, I get sound. Resetting its output level to 0db brings up the volume.
• Resetting the Amp channel brings up the volume further and restores the character of the amp. I did a right click on the block and pulled down to Edit->Reset Channel. You need to tweak to your tastes.

In the "Jack Bowen presets, the above apply, plus the Filter block is killing the output. Disable it and the volume returns to what I'd expect, so fiddle with that.

In "Bulb v18 Low to Mid Gain", the above also apply, except for the Filter block. The Drive block seems to be a problem as it's reducing the signal, but YMMV. In "Bulb v18 Clean", there's a weird trailing distortion as the signal fades. I couldn't pin it down.

When moving from one major firmware to another, there are a lot of internal flags and values that change. Because it's proprietary software Fractal isn't making that information available. @AlGrenadine does a valiant job trying to decipher the changes, but there's always a lag after the firmware is released as he takes apart the file and figures out the differences. I think that's what's happening here, that FracTool attempts to fix up the presets, but doesn't have the information necessary to complete the job. Resetting the Amp blocks, which had major changes in Cygnus, brings them back to their defaults. A soft reset of the BB drive blocks might help as that code was reworked prior to, and in Cygnus.

I suspect you can find equally useful sounds in the factory presets that work correctly with Cygnus. For the ones with lots of reverb and delay effects you can probably copy the blocks and their layout into a factory preset, but YMMV.

Finally, your compression algorithm isn't a standard Zip, so it'll make it harder for people to help you when they can't open the file.

Hey, thanks for the information and the really verbose response, greatly appreciated. Thankfully, the backup only contained literally the default presets, theres no 3rd party IR's in there since I nuked everything trying to identify what is happening (thus the reason I posted the Periphery conversions from Axe Exchange rather than the actually preset from the tone pack I purchased, but I appreciate the reminder nonetheless). Doing some work right now and I'll digest your post a bit later in the night, just wanted to thank you for your input.