New AX8 user having random volume changes

[alphadog808]

Hi guys,
I finally tried and got a AX8, there was a learning curve, but after working with it for a couple weeks, I'm getting more comfortable with it...I do notice the tones/options coming out are a step/s above other modelers I've used in the past!

One thing/problem I've been noticing tho, is my patch/scene levels seem to change on their own. Not so much back and forth during a rehearsal, but maybe per time I go out to play.

Typically, I have all my stuff in multiple scenes. I use the VU meter and level out the volumes via the output scene volume. I get the VU meter close the vertical line in all scenes. Great, right? However, when I take the AX8 out to play, I notice that sometimes the scene volumes aren't even. I thought maybe it was just my ears, but one day, I had time to check the VU meter when I was experiencing this and noticed that the volumes were nowhere near where they used to be. The VU meter was showing closer to 1/3 to the vertical line. So, I boosted the scene up. Then the next time I use the AX8, that scene is really loud. I've changed guitar cables and messed with the guitar jack - I'm assuming it's ok as the guitar/scene still sounds good/full. Just wondering if this is a bug of some sort, or if I'm setting scene volumes wrong, etc?

 

[simeon]

i'm wondering if you have some blocks in parallel, but you haven't set the mix levels at 100% and when you're bypassing those blocks, you're getting a change in level. it can also happen if you have a block in series with a high mix value and a bypass mode set to "thru". make sure any blocks in parallel are set to 100% and use "mute in" or "mute fx in" as the bypass mode. use the block level or input gain to set the level of the effect. i can't think what else it might be.

 

[alphadog808]

Thanks Simeon! My current scene is in series..but I do have some blocks at like...81% mix and set to thru if not being used. I assumed(sounds like maybe wrongly) that if you bypass a block at 81% mix, it's not at 100% bypass? I didn't see any way to set it so bypass is full bypass? How would I set a block to be at mix 81% when on, but full pass through when off?

 

[simeon]

If the bypass mode is set to thru, then it is at full bypass and 100% of the signal is going through, but you have it set to 80% mix, which means when it’s on, only 20% of the signal is passing through. That’s why your3 getting a volume jump. You need to set the bypass mode to mute fx in, so that the dry signal level stays the same when the block is bypassed. I can’t imagine what you’d be running at 80% mix, though, that’s weird.

 

[alphadog808]

Do you mean, when it's on it's 80% signal and off it's 20% signal passing through to the next block? Wasn't sure if that was a typo, or if I'm misunderstanding. To clarify, my drive block(in front of amp block) is at 80% - when I first got the AX8, another guitarist who had some fractal gear had told me that if I wanted more amp sound and less drive sound going to the amp, lower the mix of the drive block...maybe wrong info? Either way, I'll mess with both the mix and the types of bypass and see what happens.

The only worrisome part is I don't think this problem happens all the time...

 

[simeon]

i'm not referring to drive blocks really and they only have two bypass modes and that's thru and mute. i'm thinking about delay or reverb blocks. think what the mix control actually does - when it's on zero, it's all dry signal and no effect. when it's on 100%, then there's no dry signal and it's all effect. so at 50% mix, you've reduced the dry signal level and increased the effect level. when you bypass the effect, which bypass mode is selected will effect the mix level. it will either return the dry level to max, which is the same as mix=0, or leave the dry signal level where it is, so no change from the mix level. read the bit in the manual about bypass modes and you'll get an idea of what each one of them does. if your problem is unrelated to this, you might want to try and describe what's going on in your preset a bit better, because we have zero information at the moment, which is why i'm just guessing it has to do with block bypass modes.

 

[alphadog808]

so I messed around last night, it’s not the mix as you mentioned. Levels do not consistently change when jumping all over the scenes, etc.

When I get back I’ll see if I can upload my patch. It does seem that the volume problem happens only sometimes, so it makes me think that it’s not a simple config problem, but we shall see!

 

[Ericbr1]

Any chance you have 'controllers/modifiers' assigned and don't know it? Probably not, but if you have certain things set up an external pedal, or internal controllers to change volumes, that can cause that. I had some weird results when I downloaded some programs off of Axechange, etc and that was the reason why. Other than that based on your description I can't think of anything. I'd definitely upload your patches that are haviung the problems and someone can help!

 

[Habuman]

Is the volume change during scene use? If so, check the output/scene levels in the Output Block.

 

[Ericbr1]

Is the volume change during scene use? If so, check the output/scene levels in the Output Block.

Yep that's another case, other than the controllers I mentioned above (which of course include Scene Controllers for cab volumes, amp volumes, amp input trims, etc,etc) . . I assume the OP bought it 'used' and the previous owner could have stuff like that set. But they're definitely not 'random' as they're planned changes this way. You/we'll get to the bottom of it OP

 

[alphadog808]

Hi all, here's the patch. Everything in the the Live patch except a clean patch.

 

[alphadog808]

Is the volume change during scene use? If so, check the output/scene levels in the Output Block.

It's when I am using it/jumping between scenes, but I'm not sure if it's because I'm changing scenes or if the volume change is different at power on and I noticed it as I go along. Note, when I got this used, I did a full reset, so anything in there is not from the previous user.

 

[Ericbr1]

Hi all, here's the patch. Everything in the the Live patch except a clean patch.

Oh ok , I assume you set up those modifiers/controllers yourself? If so all looks fine so far, but your patches you just uploaded don't have the CAB with them, so we can't use them without our CAB choice, but I'm sure that won't be relevant.. .on to check them out

 

[Ericbr1]

It's when I am using it/jumping between scenes, but I'm not sure if it's because I'm changing scenes or if the volume change is different at power on and I noticed it as I go along. Note, when I got this used, I did a full reset, so anything in there is not from the previous user.

Ok, so I downloaded and put in my own Cab choices. .(just random cab choices). Your program is as good as most I've tried on Axechange. ha.. Couple of notes
1) You have a Scene Controller controlling your amp's input drive that is set differently for all 5 of your scenes. That's on purpose right?
2) You have different Scene levels set up in your OUTPUT mixer for each scene you've written. On purpose right?
3) You have External pedal controlling the pitch block. . I didn't hook up a pedal but it looks fine to me. .On purpose right ?
4) Scene1 controlling Amp input drive levels shows twice in the 'Modifiers" tab and I don't know if I've seen that, but it's probably/possibly because you have it set for AMP X and AMP Y
5) I see nothing wrong with anything that would cause any unpredictable dropouts, unless for some reason some of the 'stereo' effects weren't set up right and you're listening in Mono. . I'm using stereo headphones so everything sounds fine to me .

I am NOT an Ax8 expert, but I did play gigs with mine the last 2 weekends , and have owned it since it first came out. There had been many years I hadn't used it until just recently though. Good luck, and maybe something above helped, but probably not. IF something truly is 'intermittent' I'd clean all the jacks and footswitches with De-Oxit (if it were me)

Eric

 

[alphadog808]

Ok, so I downloaded and put in my own Cab choices. .(just random cab choices). Your program is as good as most I've tried on Axechange. ha..

I readded the patch with the cabs. I usually go warmerish, maybe it might sound a little better? I do make cuts in the cab and drive blocks(I remember you asking about this on TGP). You can also try turning off the PEQ, was trying something Leon Todd had...it does make it a little brighter too. BTW, I'm going mono into an Alto FR. Using a Les Paul with JB in bridge with swapped out A5 mag for an A2(def warms up the pup).

Couple of notes
1) You have a Scene Controller controlling your amp's input drive that is set differently for all 5 of your scenes. That's on purpose right?

Right.

2) You have different Scene levels set up in your OUTPUT mixer for each scene you've written. On purpose right?

Right.

3) You have External pedal controlling the pitch block. . I didn't hook up a pedal but it looks fine to me. .On purpose right ?

Nope, it's just an on/off. I changed it. I rarely use the pitch - only one song really, but never know.

4) Scene1 controlling Amp input drive levels shows twice in the 'Modifiers" tab and I don't know if I've seen that, but it's probably/possibly because you have it set for AMP X and AMP Y

I think that's right.

5) I see nothing wrong with anything that would cause any unpredictable dropouts, unless for some reason some of the 'stereo' effects weren't set up right and you're listening in Mono. . I'm using stereo headphones so everything sounds fine to me .

I am NOT an Ax8 expert, but I did play gigs with mine the last 2 weekends , and have owned it since it first came out. There had been many years I hadn't used it until just recently though. Good luck, and maybe something above helped, but probably not. IF something truly is 'intermittent' I'd clean all the jacks and footswitches with De-Oxit (if it were me)

Eric

Thanks for the tips! I added stuff inline to your response.

 

[Ericbr1]

I readded the patch with the cabs. I usually go warmerish, maybe it might sound a little better? I do make cuts in the cab and drive blocks(I remember you asking about this on TGP). You can also try turning off the PEQ, was trying something Leon Todd had...it does make it a little brighter too. BTW, I'm going mono into an Alto FR. Using a Les Paul with JB in bridge with swapped out A5 mag for an A2(def warms up the pup).

Right.

Right.

Nope, it's just an on/off. I changed it. I rarely use the pitch - only one song really, but never know.

I think that's right.

Thanks for the tips! I added stuff inline to your response.

You won't want to hear this, but I just viewed your patch(es) and played with them for a long time. . Actually kind of can make this into something I'd use too. I see no issues whatsoever. I don't even use the VU meter when writing my programs, but you did a good job, and I'm sure you have certain Scenes set for lower volume and lower gain on purpose. There is NO random volume changing going on and no controller causing that. Simeon is WAY more of a professional than me with this, but I kinda know my stuff and I hate to think you're referring to a hardware issue with your specific unit, OR your cables, or intermittent guitar pots/jacks, etc. By the way you wrote this program within a week or 2 of owning the AX8 though, I'd think you're aware of all of that stuff!

 

[alphadog808]

Hey thanks man, I appreciate you trying! I was leaning towards the guitar cable as I use whatever is lying around when rehearsing. Since then, I’ve been using my better George L cables and have seen it at least once, I think.

On other modelers/amps, when I have a bad cable, it’s really obvious-crackling, no/very little volume, extremely thin sound, etc. it doesn’t seem that way-maybe the fractal is more sensitive to a cable problem and doesn’t act the same.

Either way, thank you for trying-at least I found out my pitch block was tied to an external pedal when it didn’t need to be! I’ll keep messing with it to see if I can reproduce it better.

 

[alphadog808]

So...it happened again - this time I was in my room rehearsing. An hour or more in, I noticed that the volume would change as I jumped from scene to scene or turned an effect on/off. Never louder than the initial volume, always softer. I know it initially started when I turned on the auto wah. The only good thing I learned is the problem doesn't seem to be the frfr as volume was changing as I made changes on the ax8(footswitches). I was always unsure if it was the speakers that might be causing this. I tried to reproduce it again but couldn't.

I have since reset everything, redownloaded the firmware, and pulled down my patches, cabs, etc. We'll see if it comes back.

 

[dsouza]

So...it happened again - this time I was in my room rehearsing. An hour or more in, I noticed that the volume would change as I jumped from scene to scene or turned an effect on/off. Never louder than the initial volume, always softer. I know it initially started when I turned on the auto wah. The only good thing I learned is the problem doesn't seem to be the frfr as volume was changing as I made changes on the ax8(footswitches). I was always unsure if it was the speakers that might be causing this. I tried to reproduce it again but couldn't.

I have since reset everything, redownloaded the firmware, and pulled down my patches, cabs, etc. We'll see if it comes back.

Sorry I can't help you, I have never had this problem in the last 2 years I've had my AX8. Does it happen with different AMP blocks? Or are you only using one type of AMP when it's happening?

I have had this problem happen with my tube Vox Ac10 and Pedalboard where after the AC10 was heated up for 1-2 hrs or more the volume would randomly change. Sometimes it would boot up much louder than other times. I never had this problem with my AX8 or my Redsound Elis 8's.

 

[alphadog808]

Sorry I can't help you, I have never had this problem in the last 2 years I've had my AX8. Does it happen with different AMP blocks? Or are you only using one type of AMP when it's happening?

I have had this problem happen with my tube Vox Ac10 and Pedalboard where after the AC10 was heated up for 1-2 hrs or more the volume would randomly change. Sometimes it would boot up much louder than other times. I never had this problem with my AX8 or my Redsound Elis 8's.

No problem - it seemed to happen with one preset with multiple scenes. Now that I think about it, I do have x/y for the amps(same amp tho) and x/y for the drives. It did feel like a heat issue, but I've had it on for hours at gigs, etc and nothing. Now that I think about it, I don't think it ever happened at a gig - only rehearsal kind of things, usually in the room that I practice in. Since reloading everything back, it hasn't happened yet. Then again, I've been taking a break, no gigs for a couple weeks, so relax a bit.