Neal Schon tone?? Am I crazy?

M

mcfarljm

Member
Anyone here familiar with Vinai T's cover of Big Moon by Neal Schon? Check it out on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op2X0azGGAs. It's a great cover, and the tone is a killer compressed clean sound. Description says that he recorded it with an Axe FX II. That someone could get this kind of result with a guitar processor is one of the many reasons I recently sprung for an Axe FX II (had it about a week now).

His description has a link to his presets (although it's hosted on some kind of shitty site that makes you install download software). So I grabbed the preset and was trying it out tonight and I'm thinking I must be crazy cause it's completely awful. I've used all kinds of guitar processors, and this is one of the worst tones I've ever tried. I realize that the results depend on the guitar and pickups etc..., and that mine are different (although I tried with single coil and humbuckers), but still... I have to believe that either he didn't really use this patch (or it's corrupted), or that something's wrong with my Axe FX. (I'm just running studio monitors by the way.)

I'm gonna try to attach the patch here, and wondering if someone that has more experience with the Axe FX can test it out and see what they think. For what I'm attaching, the only change from the one I downloaded is that I bypassed the volume block (which was originally attached to an external controller that I didn't have, causing me to get no sound).

View attachment Vibra Verb ChoComp.syx

A few other things that I'm finding odd: (1) the level is way too loud and easily clips my output even with a single coil strat (and from his video my guess is he recorded with humbuckers). (2) For the amp block (Vibrato Verb), he has the input trim at 6.5 and input drive at 2.6 -- what is this about, why crank up the input trim? Is this a typical way to get a good sound from a Fender model? And that's coming after a compressor that already has the level up to 12db...

Really at a loss here, feel like there has to be something I'm missing...
 
If you had downloaded and installed the software from the "shitty site" it would sound just like you hoped it would. :lol
 
You are an Axe Fx noob so you think a patch made years ago will sound the same.......that is an understandable mistake.

That patch was created on firmware from 2011 when the Axe 2 first came out. Tones have changed tons of times since then.......go back to the firmware that was on the Axe at that time(Sept 2011) & the patch will sound pretty good I'm sure. Minus Vinai T's talent of course.

You could also just forget that patch & try to dial in the tone from scratch yourself using the latest FW16.02..........best way to get your feet wet!
 
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Yep, start anew for the amp sound and keep the grid / FX that are probably good (although for example the delay mix law has changed now).

I tried those. Only remember liking the clean sound. The other sounds didn't translate well.
 
Yeah, that older patch will probably not sound right at all. Better to figure out the principle of what he was doing ad dial it in from there.
 
Yup. I loved that patch when it was on the same firmware that he used to create it. It wasn't long after that, that the sound totally changed due to a firmware release. The amp sims became more realistic, but it affected the preset.
 
Thanks guys that explains a few things. Is FW number stored when you export a patch? Is it much trouble to go backwards to older firmwares?
 
My dime's worth - don't bother going back to early firmware. Listen carefully to Vinai's tone and start tweaking. If you have the earlier patch, it's a starting point, nothing more. It's about the tone, not about the specific gear. Then add your own talent into the mix and you'll end up with a tone that works for you. This is the process I have used with great success. Warning - you will likely be surprised at what amp model works with your fingers and talents.

To answer your question - no, the FW number is not stored within the patch. If you load it with newer FW, it will adapt as best as it can to the new logarithms. Loosely translated, that means it probably won't sound close. But turn some knobs and try some IRs and you will get much closer.

This will all get much easier and clearer soon. Just have fun with the most amazing tool ever created for a guitarist!
 
Joining the others in 'just create your own'. The journey (sic) will give you better insight to creating YOUR sound. This tone is not that complex, so it's doable.

Also be wary of others presets, even on current FW. Everyone's playing style, guitar choice, and ear are different; it's very difficult to have one preset that everyone likes.
 
electronpirate said:
Also be wary of others presets, even on current FW
Click to expand...

That's the truth right there
yessmiley.gif


I've never found a single preset that works for me... not because I'm anything special, but there's just so many variables!


Or maybe it's because others are more 'special'..?
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That's one of my favourite patches from FW11 days. I've adjusted it through the ensuing FW changes but tbh it sounds very different now. I'd love to get that original tone back in the current FW.
 
You know that he is a forum member. Chances are that he's got a new version of that patch made....if he in fact keeps his AxeFXII up to date. I mean we all kind of have our go to tones and if it changes with fw we make a new version.

Or am I doing it wrong? :)
 
fw11? Man, that's some old shit. lol.

edit: I just checked out the video and it was uploaded in September of 2011. For the AF2 that's like firmware 1 or 2.

Nice sound still but this should be pretty easy to dial in now.
 
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Hearing several comments to the effect that this would be an easy sound to dial in. A little surprised to hear that because I've been chasing this tone for a while with other modelers and have found it pretty tough to match. After hearing the comments here, I spent a couple hours trying to dial it in on the Axe FX II, but didn't have any better luck. To my ear, what I hear most in Vinai's recording is the compressor in front of the amp and a really smooth amp tone with some "snap" or something that I don't know how to describe, but that definitely has a distinctive sound. The delay/reverb ambiance can always be dialed in to taste, so I'm concerned mostly just with the amp tone.

On his patch, he used the Vibrato Verb, but even just in general I haven't been able to get any usable sounds from that amp model with my guitars. I started with the block defaults, but really just can't get anything usable from it. The Double Verb works a lot better for me, and using Pedal Comp 1 with fairly high sustain (as in Vinai's patch), I can get to a very usable tone, but it's nowhere near his sound, and probably still not as good as what I already had on my GT-100 (using the "orange compressor" and the bassman amp model).
 
I said it should be easy to dial in mainly because the amp models and cab IRs have advanced to the degree that it takes very little effort to get a good sound with basic edits to the default models. I don't have time until this weekend to get into it, but I'll try to make time to come up with something close. I seem to remember getting something close to this tone just a week or 2 ago, with a quick amp and cab setup and adding a little extra delay and reverb. Just for noodling tho, so I really don't remember details. But I think it was the twin reverb.

You know you can always do a tone match to get scary close, if you can find about 3 seconds of just guitar tone to sample.

One last thought is that Vinai definitely has a distinct tone from his technique, and I think that's the snap you describe, and that is impossible to model, of course. But many here are way better than me at crafting sounds with the axe, and perhaps they'll step in and take it up, for the possible parts anyway. Maybe his snap is in the axe somewhere.
 
I just got my AXE FX II so I'm not that far along on presets but I payed Big Moon with an instrumental band before I went Fractile so I understand your quest here. The tone settings I used which did it justice were as follows: Strat delux with rose wood neck and N1's into keely compressor into an Ibanez tube screamer but with the overdrive all the way down -start with tone at 12:00 and dime the level (all the way up). At this point you can go into the amp which I agree is the most important part of the big moon tone. I ran a Mesa Boogie Mark V as follows: channel 1 in 10W power in "fat" mode, the 5 band EQ turned on and set up with the standard V-shaped mid scoop add reverb to taste then back off a touch. In the effects loop use a boss Dd7 tapped to tempo in analog mode with one fully distinguishable repeat feathered out a bit with the feed back level. Now you have to dial in the set up with a focus on the attack and articulation. Needs to be tight and articulate but warm with lots of body and not shrill. In my opinion this is the signature ingredient in the sound (attack). Balance the set up as follows- fore more front end bite on the initial attack increase the tone on the Tube screamer, roll up the bass knob to keep the body full. You will need to tweak the presence and treble knobs to get fast acting articulation with heavy bass but try to keep the treble under 10. If you need more than that to get the attack right then go ahead and roll in more than you need and then roll off about a quarter turn on your guitar tone. I can post a performance recording with this setting for reference if you like.


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If I had to start with a preset I would use the Boutique (40 something on mine). Mid scoop it as a starting point.


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Awesome thanks for the tips. What kind of settings on the Keeley? Would be interested to hear a recording if you have it. I've been tweaking vinai's patch and have a usable tone but still room for improvement. May post a sound clip with current preset if I get around to it
 
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