My first experience with an Ultra... disappointing :(

[JJunkie]

Thanks JJ

I appreciate your opinions! I believe what you just said enforces the opportunity for a sort of FRFR/Cab switch. It's often said that you appreciate more what you earned by your efforts, but this is a field where this motto hardly applies. YMMV ;D

You know, point is: shall I run a risk, and invest time and money betting on axe's potential and on my ability to tame it to my needs? I believe it's a good world the one where I'm not obliged to. Just IMO, of course.
I know, I know: "you can always resell the unit at a small or no loss"... but this just happens by accident, and I'm sure Mr. Chase was not counting on this crazy market situation when he first wrote down his machine's specifications

Thanks for joining the thread

haha. To be honest, if I were say 10 years older or had kids, I would probably pass on the axe-fx and get something that gives me the quick results.

Once mastered, using the axe-fx is very rewarding, but it takes time, especially if you are me. I lost some guiitar skill, but didn't have much to begin with anyway.. oh well, time to practice again.

 

[Chief]

Hi Gianfranco, and welcome!
In your original post, you say you were attracted so several sounds that you heard with the Axe, and then you describe how you were disappointed that you couldn't get the sound you liked with your fav amp, and then modified that to say that you would be satisfied if you could get rid of the "hi-fi" sound. If I could read between the lines it sounds to me as if you are attracted to the versatility of the Axe if it could come closer to the in-the-room sound you have gotten used to. If this is true, you may be able to tweak enough on your trial to believe that you can get there eventually, or another user can convince you by clips or in person. Personally, i believe that almost any sound is capable from the box, given enough work, and given your tolerance for time spent vs. "close enough". There is definitely a difference between a great sound and a perfect replication of a great sounding amp! Each is possible!
Just a couple of points, all my opinion. No amp has a perfect setting, that's why they put knobs on 'em ;-) Two great players would sound great on the same amp with totally different settings.
Know the target: is it to get the in-the-room, to get a good recording, to go front of house? Each will demand a different result. I know that you already know this, but the Axe does all of this in one box instead of the alternatives. Starting with the end in mind can get you a long way.
I like to use two cabs in parallel, it seems to give the sound more dimension, IMHO. Even if you have to run low-resolution.
I'm coming to grips with a concept: consider the chain of drive-amp-cab as one tweakable unit, that is, set them up together and then go back and forth. To a somewhat lesser extent, the compressor is also part. Another major piece is the relation of the specific guitar and eq to the others, but this is more of a constant. I like a para eq post-cab, but you may not.
There are a lot of great tips just on this thread, and so much more on the forum. Clips are out there, you will have to judge for yourself. Give it a good test - good luck!

 

[viabcroce]

Hi Chief, thanks for your welcome X)

and thanks for you advises, your passion about the Axe (and the music itself I guess) arrives very strongly here!

Just a short answer before I leave for my next test.
My aim is to get a sound which DNA I can call touching. This is what I've always wanted from any sound system. I don't care about diversity, but there are certain requisites I won't do without. This second experience will be useful for eliminating from the equation issues which depended on the first user's setup and rig: trying a different rig, with a different musician, will surely tell more.

If I have time, will post my discoveries this evening, when I'm back: hope this will be useful for all the "on the fence" people out here

 

[laxu]

As I've been trying to point out, the sound I got was like a guitar through a mixing board, or direct into a computer's audio interface.
What I did was taking a preset, excluding its effect bocks (as many times suggested on these pages), and tweaking. No way I was able to make it sound like an amp, were it mic'd or in the room.

This would only happen if poweramp sim and cab sim are turned off. Without them it does sound exactly like a guitar preamp plugged straight into a mixing board - thin and nasty with distortion and kinda flat and uninspiring on cleans. The cab sim is very important for that and the poweramp sim adds to the realism. These can both be turned on from the global settings. Likewise the patch must have a cab block present for the cab sim to work.

 

[Prosvetlen]

I guess, I am one of the happy campers when it comes to the Axe-Ultra: I've never had or would like to have "my tone"--I play progressive rock and in each piece I need different guitar tones, and not all of them are pleasing and/or similar, it's just the nature of the animal. This said, the OP's quest to find a particular tone is somehow alien to me, although I perfectly understand what it is to chase a tone. With me, however, the tones I'm after always depend on the context (mix). My works are original and I don't have the restriction to sound in a certain way through particular gear. I've already mentioned before that the Ultra doesn't sound like a tube amp, but in many aspects sounds better than a tube amp. Many times I've had this experience: I'm running my clean tube/solid through the FX loop on the Ultra and I'm extremely pleased with the sounds and I'm telling myself that this just can't be done through the Ultra. Then I replace the loop block with Ultra's clean amp and it's all there! To an extent that I dislike the tube tones I've been getting just 5 minutes ago! There is a preset called something like "British Brittle Clean" or something like that, in the 200-ts. With minor modifications (a boost before the amp and lower threshold on the compressor), that preset is just mind-blowing, IMHO. My recommendation to the OP is to continue testing and improving his tweaking skills, it's all there, you have to find it. Greetings!

 

[viabcroce]

...the OP's quest to find a particular tone is somehow alien to me, although I perfectly understand what it is to chase a tone.

Thanks Prosvetlen for you opinions
As I've tried to point out, my perplexity did not came from my inability to reproduce a specific tone with the Axe, bur rather from the kind of tone I couldn't succeed in avoiding from the Axe. And yes, your voice ads to the many I've already had the pleasure to listen to from several happy Fractalers out there XD.

My main problem was, I had just a few hours to understand what the machine was capable of. But now I've had my second chance... ;D

[to be continued]

 

[viabcroce]

...After The Ordeal

Ladies & Gentlemen, this evening I had my second face-to-face with an Ultra. The situation was completely different it seems: as I was suspecting, there was probably something wrong in the first rig I had listened to, or something I did not realize about how to use the machine.

My test has been really complete this time. Two guitars used here:

• a Giulio Vecchini Makassar Double Cut (halfway between an LP and a PRS) gifted with two MAMA HBs ALNICO V;
• a 1962 Eko Dragon with custom P90.

Test 1. PC, KRK stereo monitors, cab simulation.
Sounds appear more credible from the beginning if compared to my previous experience. I also realize how much a different PU (not only guitar) can affect the sound, more than with real amps IMO. Even the combinations of an amp with different cabs give a critical contribution to the sound.
I did not notice any problem when switching from one instrument to the other, provided you use good settings. I was able to get some beautifully playing acoustic strumming with the Eko for example.
Maybe it's a psycological effect, but it seems to me that (those) monitors were not able to return a big thump and punch... or it was me, not pushing my picks too hard for fear of seeing those small woofers spring out...


Test 2. Cheap active stage wedges, cab simulation.
Strong increase in the punch and presence, the "amp feeling" is more present. The preset used had been tailored on that system, and even such a cheap rig sounded good; this makes me think that (with the right tweaking) an Axe may also help improving a low-budget hardware.


Test 3. Marshall JCM ??? power amp (about 130 € used), 2x12 Dragoon 280C8C cab (Celestion Century neodymium loudspeakers). (Note: the cabs in the video demo are used in the closed configuration. They can be open or half-open in seconds).
There's an obvious loss in versatility due to giving un the cab simulation. But even so there's no problem in switching from a sound to another, and in changing the sonic atmosphere. OTOH, the punch produced by the Dragoon and the Makassar in combination is unrivalled IMO.
I'd not exclude that some cab sims may sound good with some guitar cabs: we've read more than one time of happy users having tried this. I guess, as long as the sim and the real cab do not insist too much over some frequencies but complete each other, and together produce good phase cancellations, results may be checked.


My conclusions
So, it really seems the Axe-Fx can do a lot for the musician, and the trade-off due to giving up real tubes is really minimum IMO unless you're actually after that exact tube sound. Even so, with the right simulated amp and a good skill in tweaking you can go far. No direct experience here though (my M/B LSS is not in the Axe's amp list), just guessing.

I also noticed that a good knowledge of machine's controls set and real rigs is invaluable in order to get good sonic results. The owner of the unit was very good at both, and he changed the controls in real time while I was playing always suceeding in getting the tone closer to the sound I was requesting. It would have taken me ages had I tried it by myself.
So the power is there, but you have to find a key to it.

On the whole, the combination I liked best is the one with the wedges, which (with a wise tweaking) gives both a cab guitar punch and the versatility of the cab simulations.

Hope to have been of some help to the forum! Do not hesitate to ask some questions in case you need further information

BTW: Any Genesis fans here around?

 

[laxu]

Sounds like the axefx and atomic fr combo might work for you

 

[Smilzo]

I also realize how much a different PU (not only guitar) can affect the sound, more than with real amps IMO.

It depends or amps: Mesa can't.

Even the combinations of an amp with different cabs give a critical contribution to the sound.

I noticed that I like the most studio monitor because every little particular stands out: if you switch from 4x10 to 4x12 you really hear big difference. As you move to stage monitor or, worse of all, guitar cab everything gone cloudy.

 

[Prosvetlen]

viabcroce, I'm glad that you found good sounds in the Axe. BTW, chasing a tone and chasing a "particular" tone are two different things, IMO, so I think that that little condescending nuance in your post was unnecessary. It's all good, though. I play progressive rock, ergo, I am a Genesis fan. Gentle Giant anyone?

 

[Prosvetlen]

Oh, I forgot: Cliff said somewhere that the cab sims are crucial when comes to sound; different heads with the same cab will be much more monotonous than only one head with different cabs.

 

[viabcroce]

Sounds like the axefx and atomic fr combo might work for you

Do they react like a PA cab?

 

[viabcroce]

viabcroce, I'm glad that you found good sounds in the Axe. BTW, chasing a tone and chasing a "particular" tone are two different things, IMO, so I think that that little condescending nuance in your post was unnecessary. It's all good, though. I play progressive rock, ergo, I am a Genesis fan. Gentle Giant anyone?

I'm sorry, I can't read your perplexity... But, as you say, it's all good

The Genesis call was about the post title, BTW

Oh, I forgot: Cliff said somewhere that the cab sims are crucial when comes to sound; different heads with the same cab will be much more monotonous than only one head with different cabs.

This is st. you can easily test by just switching amps keeping the same cab, can't you? I could experience ther dramatic influence a cab gives to the sound... even though, if you consider an amp not only as a black box but an active device gifted with controls, I think it also shows a strong personality in the chain, specially when it works in its non linear zone

 

[viabcroce]

It depends or amps: Mesa can't.

... sorry, I lost something here: does it mean a Mesa doesn't change sound when you change PU?

I noticed that I like the most studio monitor because every little particular stands out: if you switch from 4x10 to 4x12 you really hear big difference. As you move to stage monitor or, worse of all, guitar cab everything gone cloudy.

This makes sense. If I found a studio monitor system witht he same punch of a PA (or understood how to get it) I would definitely make a serious thought on one

 

[Admin M@]

Would be nice if the original post could now have a new title... Maybe "My second experience with an Ultra... satisfying "

 

[Smilzo]

The lonestar I played with have "compressed" attack. Not the best to test a guitar, IMO!
There was a lot of talk about good monitor in this forum. They are priced in the x1000 euro; studio monitor can give you incredible punch, but also the studio has to be acoustically treated.

 

[jon]

Would be nice if the original post could now have a new title... Maybe "My second experience with an Ultra... satisfying "

And it's all uphill from there I've tried all sorts of crazy things with this box already, and am STILL finding out new tricks and methods and ways to twist and mangle sound. I went thru my ultra the other day, and well I never really delete my presets.....there's more than enough for me lol - so I was auditioning some of the earlier stuff I did....from when I got it to what I'm doing with it now, and WOW! What a difference! :O It's particulary striking cuz you can hear the transformation being made after each preset.

Bottom line is, that the axe is VERY satisfying, but you have to take some time to get to know it intimately - there's hardly any limit (other than cpu) to what this thing is capable of!

 

[viabcroce]

Would be nice if the original post could now have a new title... Maybe "My second experience with an Ultra... satisfying "

LOL

Hey Matt, while I'd never do such a thing for anything in the world, I've felt the need to formalize my review by posting it in the proper forum section here. X)

PS: On a more serious note, have a look at the views figures... promotionally, this worked much better for you guys

 

[viabcroce]

The lonestar I played with have "compressed" attack. Not the best to test a guitar, IMO!

Well, next time you happen to pass by give me a ring... with the Dragoon and the Makassar, my Special @ 5 watt returns a punch on the note attack which could kill birds on the fly LOL ... physically painful. If you keep gain and master halfway neighbours are calling the cops (it has happened!)