My current favorite high gain tone.....

Loquenau

Power User



That was from my Rocktron Taboo Artist, direct via Axe fxloop.

I've always loved modern (early 80s, onward) electronic timbres. Particularly synth pads. I've also always loved the piano. Since my first semester of music in '95, I've longed to create a high gain-like tone that was perhaps a.....synthesis.....of a piano, synth pad, and maybe a touch of pulse pad. I've been lazy about developing one via software in recent times, though one element in that has been the lack of articulation in electronic timbres, namely the effect of palm-muting.

I imagine a tone that's compact (rather than compressed): meaning that it's very streamlined in the treble, the attack is ultra swift, the 'fingering of strings' sound is not present, the body of the sustain is powerful/pushes strongly, and the tail of the sustain does not warble nor drift into fizz or hiss. This tone here is the furthest I've developed along these lines. My efforts with the Axe have not afforded this so far. (Perhaps tube amp designs or at least existing ones cannot. ?)
 
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I'm hearing whole bunches of preamp distortion, not so much power amp distortion. Preamp distortion comes on fast, and it doesn't fade and evolve into other stuff as the note decays.

There's a good amount of fizz in that tone, but no notes are left to ring out in your clip, so you never hear the fizz move into the foreground. Keeping down the power amp distortion also helps with that.


Start with your favorite amp sim. Crank the gain like a madman, but keep the master down. Either use high damping, or disable the power amp portion altogether. Definitely play with the new Bright knob to find the spot that gets you closest. Try the Cut switch to see if that helps or hurts. Bass/Mid/Treble to taste.
 
Pretty dull and muddy... sure you can replicate it in the axe no problem.

It doesn't have a 'hi-def' sound, that's for sure. So it isn't ideal, but it's closer to what I'm wanting than anything I've been able to produce with the Axe. Inarguably, the speaker simulation in the Taboo is a large factor in this. Equivalently, I haven't delved much into IRs outside of the stock ones, just because it's such a chore, and I have no idea where to start except perhaps anything that's a 412.


I think this one is a little better, though. Very similar, as I think mainly the treble and presence are slightly different.




I'm hearing whole bunches of preamp distortion, not so much power amp distortion. Preamp distortion comes on fast, and it doesn't fade and evolve into other stuff as the note decays.

There's a good amount of fizz in that tone, but no notes are left to ring out in your clip, so you never hear the fizz move into the foreground. Keeping down the power amp distortion also helps with that.


Start with your favorite amp sim. Crank the gain like a madman, but keep the master down. Either use high damping, or disable the power amp portion altogether. Definitely play with the new Bright knob to find the spot that gets you closest. Try the Cut switch to see if that helps or hurts. Bass/Mid/Treble to taste.

I would call it a hiss; it's high-pitched and pretty fine in texture. Also it might depend on what you're listening through. My expensive studio monitors present such detail, and are so 'sterile', that any kind of gain tone bothers me on those.

The Taboo has no power amp simulation, so it's straight gain circuit. I have to go back and find out what in the Axe 'totally' removes power amp from the chain, as turning off Sag doesn't seem to do that. The other thing is that cranking the gain in a tube circuit affects the whole thing, whereas in the Taboo the 'tone stack' and all are separate/discrete. I think even the bands are 'non-interactive', unlike in the PEQ block.

Plus there's some kind of special gating element in the distortion circuit of the Taboo, called AGX, that reduces non-harmonic-related content. Something like that. And on that note, I haven't been able to set the gate, nor compressor, without affecting the tone in ways I don't want, especially the sustain...

Which brings in perhaps the main thing about tube designs, and which Cliff has remarked about, is that saturation (and hence harmonic distortion) fluxuates with input signal, which is where the fizz comes in that I don't like in the sustain and decay.
 
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You can set the amp sim tonestack type to active, and apparently then the treble, mid and bass dont affect one another.
 
I have to go back and find out what in the Axe 'totally' removes power amp from the chain, as turning off Sag doesn't seem to do that.
Setting Sag to zero will turn off the power amp sim. It's very reliable.


Plus there's some kind of special gating element in the distortion circuit of the Taboo, called AGX, that reduces non-harmonic-related content. Something like that.
AGX is a noise gate, Doesn't affect distortion.


Which brings in perhaps the main thing about tube designs, and which Cliff has remarked about, is that saturation (and hence harmonic distortion) fluxuates with input signal, which is where the fizz comes in that I don't like in the sustain and decay.
Distortion will fluctuate with the the input signal, to a greater or lesser degree, regardless of amp design. Using lots of gain will minimize this.

You could also try the Jazz 120 sim. It's solid-state.
 
Setting Sag to zero will turn off the power amp sim. It's very reliable.

Yeah, it's different than I remember it being. It also helps to turn pre sag off. I set damping and triode hardness to 0 as well. Been tweaking a lot, yet had forgotten about the active setting being as jj mentioned. Haven't gotten to the JC-120 yet....



AGX is a noise gate, Doesn't affect distortion.

Distortion will fluctuate with the the input signal, to a greater or lesser degree, regardless of amp design. Using lots of gain will minimize this.

You could also try the Jazz 120 sim. It's solid-state.

Actually, no, I asked them ('why have that AND hush?') and they said AGX is a part of the distortion section, and that it's in use to this day. I think it affects input signal, per our discussion.
 
Yeah, it's different than I remember it being. It also helps to turn pre sag off. I set damping and triode hardness to 0 as well.
I hadn't considered that preamp sag might still be calculated with the power amp disabled. Damping and Triode Hardness shouldn't matter in that case, though.



Actually, no, I asked them ('why have that AND hush?') and they said AGX is a part of the distortion section, and that it's in use to this day. I think it affects input signal, per our discussion.
Weird. The only written claim I've seen them make is that AGX is a downward expander intended to reduce noise.
 
I hadn't considered that preamp sag might still be calculated with the power amp disabled. Damping and Triode Hardness shouldn't matter in that case, though.

Seems to sound and feel different without.


Weird. The only written claim I've seen them make is that AGX is a downward expander intended to reduce noise.

I don't recall, but in email that's what they guy said.


I would try the herbie 3 amp and then tone match.

You know, I hadn't even fucking thought of that.... I tried it, but it came out sounding like I'd put a blanket over the Herb. I recall I tried it a while ago and had the same result. No idea why.
 
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Well, I keep pushing the envelope. This tone here is bar none the absolute closest to what I've long had in my head. It has body, and is complemented by a soft hide, with detailed texture. In particular, the 'zzzzzz' that is inherent in 'distortion' is so minimised it's nearly negligible. Also notice my articulations, possible because of the softness mentioned. I haven't remotely gotten this close with the Axe, and have no idea how to.

One thing else, is that I don't want a tone that 'mixes'. I want a tone that complements, as in an acoustic recording.


 
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