Muffled Tones

That's why the settings are there, to allow for different setups and types of gear. Glad you got it sorted out.

One thing I noticed with the AX8, had it before the III, was 3rd party IRs sounded SO much better than the factory IRs. Then I'd try the AX8 live and the tone just got lost in the mix - it was very thin and weak.

I finally took an amp, loaded the "appropriate" factory IR and tried to have a more open mind about the tone. The result was eye-opening; the factory IR made the amp sound like it was supposed to. No more exaggerated high end, more mid range bite and solid bottom end.

It was completely different sounding and I wasn't sure how it would translate live but I thought I'd just trust what my ears were telling me. Tried the new preset with the factory IR at rehearsal and instantly there was a great tone that sat in the mix exactly how it should.

Unless you're doing a direct comparison between the tone you're creating and a reference tone of what you're trying to emulate, you're going by your recollection of what the tone sounded like. In other words, your ears can lie to you. My previous tones sounded nothing like the reference tones when compared side by side but on their own sounded exactly like what I thought they should and what I 'remembered'.

It's easy to become accustomed to a 'bad' tone when you're in your room tweaking away by yourself. Your ears can get used to, and want even more, of the upper frequency range and it may sound great on it's own or even playing over backing tracks. It gives the clarity that most seem to crave but in reality is very detrimental to the overall tone.

The bottom line is this; the factory IRs (non 'name brand') are every bit as good as 3rd party IRs. For me, the only real advantage of 3rd party IRs is the number of mics and placement options to choose from and I use a lot of them for that very reason. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with the factory IRs, I use a lot of them as well.
 
One thing I noticed with the AX8, had it before the III, was 3rd party IRs sounded SO much better than the factory IRs. Then I'd try the AX8 live and the tone just got lost in the mix - it was very thin and weak.
I thought the same way about the AX8/Axe FX2. But for some reason, I don't feel this way about the AXE3. I like the factory cabs and think they sound on the same level as OH, Red Wire, and other 3rd party IRs.
 
I thought the same way about the AX8/Axe FX2. But for some reason, I don't feel this way about the AXE3. I like the factory cabs and think they sound on the same level as OH, Red Wire, and other 3rd party IRs.
And that's the conclusion drawn at the end of the post, if one cares to read the whole thing.
 
Umm, the “Factory” IR’s are by & large 3rd Party IR’s. They are OH, ML, York etc IR’s taken from their available Cab Packs.

There’s not some kind of second rate “Generic” IR lab churning out half-assed IR’s. The “Factory” ones are a broad spectrum of choices of what is available from those third parties.
 
One other note....In a recent shootout between 5 FRFR's I noticed that the Friedman sounded darker...you could almost call it "muffled".

So maybe you are starting with a darker tone and low output PUPs (+4 is too hot for my system)?

Anyway it sounds like you are on your way!
 
Glad to see you got it sorted! Many of us continue to add tips, tricks and techniques to our repetoire, whether self-learned or gleaned from afar. It’s all good. Rock on!
 
Isn't this something that can be done with the alignment tab in the cab block now, or am I missing something?

Not really. IRRC, the non-min phase transformation changes the frequency profile subtly to allow any "min-phase IRs" to be used together without phase cancellations (~comb filtering) due mic distance/timing.

Without the min-phase transformation the IRs are effectively "raw", so manual alignment (e.g. in the cab block) might be required to sync the leading IR pulse edges. However there are no changes to the frequency profile of these IRs. (Anyone correct me if this is wrong).

If you read the OP from Cliff in that thread, he talks about that.
 
Assuming you mean Master Volume? The Amp block Level control doesn't affect tone.

I'm guessing he means on the Friedman ASC-12 he mentioned he was running through. Noon looks pretty loud though...kinda defeats a lot of the points of FRFR IMHO if that's the case
 
I'm guessing he means on the Friedman ASC-12 he mentioned he was running through. Noon looks pretty loud though...kinda defeats a lot of the points of FRFR IMHO if that's the case
Oh, that would make sense.
 
I fall victim to this on occasion. Just a slightly lower volume from where you EQ'd the patch can make you go "WTH??". I wouldn't go so far as to say it sounds 'muffled' ... but missing something, for sure.
 
I'm currently having same issue and coming around to the reality that tweaking means a lot in this powerful peice of kit- which settings are these you've changed?

Many thanks in advance.

UPDATE

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I had a buddy over today who is a little bit more tech savy than I am when it comes to digital guitar. After a lot of trouble shooting both in and out of the Axe, we ended up going into the internal settings and changing from -10db to +4db. This took care of a decent amount of the muffled tones I was hearing. We rounded the day off by discovering the mesa rectifier orange channel and running it through an Ownhammer impulse for an oversized mesa cab.........I firmly believe this is the tone I have been searching for my entire life lol.

Basically, I've learned that the smallest things in the Axe can make a world of difference. But the change to +4db somehow was the kicker.
 
I know there’s always a lot of these threads from new owners, and I started one myself. I was happy with the III, just not utterly blown away, like I thought I would be.
It was the same when I used my Helix and I tried all the suggestions like eq, high/low cuts, etc, but still wasn’t blown away.
Nearly every time with these threads, mine included, it’s something very simple and never a fault with the system.

What I eventually realised was the quality of my studio monitors just wasn’t doing the axe, or anything else, justice. I upgraded and the difference was incredible. Never looked back. No tweaks or drastic setting changes required. Now, when I try people’s presets or dial in settings to YouTube videos it sounds pretty much exactly the same. To be honest, I struggle to get a bad sound!

Glad the OP is now happy and always impressed with the willingness of the community to help, and how fast they do it. :blush:
 
I know there’s always a lot of these threads from new owners, and I started one myself. I was happy with the III, just not utterly blown away, like I thought I would be.
It was the same when I used my Helix and I tried all the suggestions like eq, high/low cuts, etc, but still wasn’t blown away.
Nearly every time with these threads, mine included, it’s something very simple and never a fault with the system.

What I eventually realised was the quality of my studio monitors just wasn’t doing the axe, or anything else, justice. I upgraded and the difference was incredible. Never looked back. No tweaks or drastic setting changes required. Now, when I try people’s presets or dial in settings to YouTube videos it sounds pretty much exactly the same. To be honest, I struggle to get a bad sound!

Glad the OP is now happy and always impressed with the willingness of the community to help, and how fast they do it. :blush:
Cool - another Sambora fan! I'm definitely looking to upgrade my studio monitors in the near future; just need to sell off the gear which my AX8 is replacing first.
I've also been reading up on the Fletcher Munson effect, as it does sound a bit better when I crank my monitors up, but doesn't explain that the sounds are still lacking when listening back to logic X recordings on different devices.

I'd topic, but do you have any info on the various rigs Sambora used over the years? Would especially be interested in his 90s era live rig and what he used on Stranger in this town?
Thanks, and have a great weekend!
 
I just read through this whole thread (a bit late I know) and realized the +4 thing but also I don’t think anyone asked about the room he was playing in...for future readers I personally found issues with my Friedman ASM12 when I played in my basement. Low ceilings and perhaps the dimensions of the room resulted in boomy lows and no highs at practice volumes. The Friedman really shined on stage (or on an amp stand) at gig volumes.
 
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