Wish More scene controllers would be nice

I am just now getting into scene controllers and I agree. 4 Seems really limiting, but I am also sure that there are ways to maximize the 4 that I am missing.
 
stm113 said:
I am just now getting into scene controllers and I agree. 4 Seems really limiting, but I am also sure that there are ways to maximize the 4 that I am missing.
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If you are the type of user who'd like scenes to save additional changes other than bypass state and channels then 4 scene controllers are edging into limited in some cases at least. I personally haven't hit such a limit but if you build a preset with that mentality it's a handy feature then and also it could be something useful to have more for the fm3/fm9 users I suppose. And the ability to name or tag them could be handy so you don't have to go back and forth to all parameters and right click to see which one is attached to which.
 
ConstantM said:
If you are the type of user who'd like scenes to save additional changes other than bypass state and channels then 4 scene controllers are edging into limited in some cases at least. I personally haven't hit such a limit but if you build a preset with that mentality it's a handy feature then and also it could be something useful to have more for the fm3/fm9 users I suppose. And the ability to name or tag them could be handy so you don't have to go back and forth to all parameters and right click to see which one is attached to which.
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I bet naming would really help for when you are editing on the unit, say at a gig or rehearsal when you need to be quick and decisive.
 
+1

After having gotten used to the Helix’s snapshots, the scenes in the Fractal ecosystem seemed really limiting until I learned of the scene controllers. I agree that 4 seems a little limiting, and I think 8 would be ideal, though honestly, with channels, i don’t think I’ve ever actually used scene controllers. This is primarily because I learned to do what I needed to do before I knew they existed.

I think the addition of more scene controllers would mean that you wouldn’t have to mess with both channels AND scene controllers, so you could tweak and set things in whatever way works best for you and seems most intuitive.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
+1

After having gotten used to the Helix’s snapshots, the scenes in the Fractal ecosystem seemed really limiting until I learned of the scene controllers. I agree that 4 seems a little limiting, and I think 8 would be ideal, though honestly, with channels, i don’t think I’ve ever actually used scene controllers. This is primarily because I learned to do what I needed to do before I knew they existed.

I think the addition of more scene controllers would mean that you wouldn’t have to mess with both channels AND scene controllers, so you could tweak and set things in whatever way works best for you and seems most intuitive.
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they can also be useful for the case where you just want to tweak a couple of knobs and dont want to waste a channel for that and it would be a lot of use for the fm3 where channel switching is less seamless than the axe 3
 
ConstantM said:
they can also be useful for the case where you just want to tweak a couple of knobs and dont want to waste a channel for that and it would be a lot of use for the fm3 where channel switching is less seamless than the axe 3
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Except for the Amp block, channels should all change seamlessly regardless of device.

Also, are you aware that the same Scene Controller can be assigned to multiple parameters? A lot of people miss that...
 
unix-guy said:
Except for the Amp block, channels should all change seamlessly regardless of device.

Also, are you aware that the same Scene Controller can be assigned to multiple parameters? A lot of people miss that...
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true but when i owned an fm3 i found that the more channel switching going on with each scene change the less seamless it gets. dont know if with the latest optimizations this was fixed though. in the axe it's almost unperceivable. also you can assign multiple things to the same scene controller but the values need to be the same.
when i used the fm3 i used to set two scene controllers to change my mid and gain knobs when going from rhythm to lead scene and i only had two left for anything else
 
First, let me say that I am never opposed to more options. As long as it doesn't affect or remove what is currently available.

You can however get pretty crazy with a single Scene Controller. It would be a very long post to really get into this, so here is a short-ish example...

You want to get a 'clean to mean' setup from a single Amp model, But the Amp normally doesn't clean up that well even with the 'Gain' parameter really low. The volume drops way to much at really low values, and gets thin at lower gain settings.
  • Scene Controller 1 attached to the 'Gain' parameter (Amp block) with a 'Min' value of 3.00 (the lowest setting that doesn't reduce the volume too much), and a 'Max' value of 8.00. But even at 3.00, it isn't clean enough.
  • Scene Controller 1 also attached to the 'Input Trim' parameter (Amp block) with a 'Min' value of 0.200 (or whatever value that cleans it up enough), and a 'Max' value of 1.000.
  • Scene Controller 1 also attached to the 'Bass' parameter (Amp block) with a 'Min' value of 7.00 (or whatever value that beefs up the low end on the clean setting), and a 'Max' value of 2.00 (or whatever value that keeps the low end under control on the mean setting)
  • Scene Controller 1 also attached to the 'Presence' parameter (Amp block) with a 'Min' value of 8.00 (or whatever value that adds some sparkle on the clean setting), and a 'Max' value of 5.00 (or whatever value that keeps the high end under control in the mean setting)
  • Scene Controller 1 also attached to the 'Level' parameter (Amp block) with a 'Min' value of -7.00 (or whatever value that gets the desired volume on the clean setting), and a 'Max' value of -12.00 (or whatever value that gets the desired volume on the mean setting)
  • Scene Controller 1 also attached to the 'Input Gain' parameter (Reverb block) (with a 20% Mix?) with a 'Min' value of 100.0%, (for a nice wet clean sound) and a 'Max' value of 50.0% (or whatever value that gets the desired dryer Reverb level on the mean setting). Using the Input Gain' parameter insures that the Reverb 'tails' are not affected during scene changes.

Now set Scene controller 1 to 50% and play around with the 'Mapping' parameters (Start, Mid, End, Slope, Scale, Offset) in the Edit Modifier Windows to balance the mid points of each attached parameter to where they need to be at that mid point. Use some 'Damping' via the 'Attack' and 'Release' parameters to 'morph' from one gain setting to another for an even smoother transition.

Once that is all setup, you will have a completely smooth transition from a useable clean setting to a useable mean setting using a single Scene Controller. Now you can use a second Scene Controller setup in a similar fashion for wet effects, or whatever?

Moke
 
ConstantM said:
also you can assign multiple things to the same scene controller but the values need to be the same.
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See the example above from @Moke... The value of the Scene Controller is the same but the modifier settings allow flexibility.

I agree that more would be great. Just trying to raise awareness of the options with what we have :)
 
i was aware of that trick with the modifier options and it's a smart solution but not very intuitive and it can take some trial and error to nail down the values. however (as with most things) the possibility is there in the axe fx (also i never hit the ceiling in customizability even with the fm3), i agree but it's advanced tweaking most ppl wont know or bother with and yes ofc i also welcome more options (and it seems cliff has an endless supply of them to spare)
and thanks for the useful tips and description @Moke @unix-guy
 
Late to the party on this thread, but more scene controllers would be very welcome!
Or.... Make the scenes save the position of every knob and switch, as the snapshot system works with Line6. Scenes controllers seem like a bit of a workaround in that regard.

I appreciate @Moke solution too. However, that seems like a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. If a scene can recall the bypass state of all blocks, the channel of all blocks, and the state of all parameters on each channel why could it not recall the state of the parameters on the current block when a new scene is triggered? If the scene function pulls data from an array or database, it could do so on every parameter of every block regardless of channel state.

Scene controllers can do other things like change a parameter over time, which is cool. But if the code can't be written to store all parameters of all blocks regardless of channel (like the Line6 snapshot system), 20 more scene controllers would be a quick fix.

And scene controllers need to have the ability to be named! I can't remember from preset to preset what I have assigned to a scene controller without looking at the parameters and checking manually. I am rebuilding my presets from my previous FX platform the Headrush MX5. Where I have 45 presets for my wedding band and 40+ presets for my other band. 95+ presets and I am supposed to be able to remember what parameters scene controllers have been assigned in each preset?!?! That's not really possible for me.
 
Bode said:
Late to the party on this thread, but more scene controllers would be very welcome!
Or.... Make the scenes save the position of every knob and switch, as the snapshot system works with Line6. Scenes controllers seem like a bit of a workaround in that regard.

I appreciate @Moke solution too. However, that seems like a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. If a scene can recall the bypass state of all blocks, the channel of all blocks, and the state of all parameters on each channel why could it not recall the state of the parameters on the current block when a new scene is triggered? If the scene function pulls data from an array or database, it could do so on every parameter of every block regardless of channel state.
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I think there's more to it than that; the scene may save the channel and bypass state, but the scene itself probably doesn't (currently) store the parameters' values. That's probably a block function and we have no idea how far removed from control (or even awareness) the parameters' values are from scene control. It seems almost like Scene Controllers sit on top of the architecture(?) and directly reach in to control parameters. Or, worse, they interface with the blocks and the blocks interface with the parameters, making the whole process extra labor intensive.

Implementing that would probably require a complete redesign of how scenes, channels, parameters, and bypass states work or are stored. I suspect the Axe Fx IV will have this more granularly exposed, and it'll be more like the Helix's snapshots. If they implemented Scene Controllers to the fullest extent, there would be no need for channels in blocks. And without channels, I suspect some blocks would become superfluous and the whole idea would require a FW overhaul - which goes back to FAS more or less being locked into the current way of doing things.

Regardless, more control is better :)
Bode said:
And scene controllers need to have the ability to be named! I can't remember from preset to preset what I have assigned to a scene controller without looking at the parameters and checking manually. I am rebuilding my presets from my previous FX platform the Headrush MX5. Where I have 45 presets for my wedding band and 40+ presets for my other band. 95+ presets and I am supposed to be able to remember what parameters scene controllers have been assigned in each preset?!?! That's not really possible for me.
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This is the big one, in my mind. In fact, I recently revisited a preset where I had set up a scene controller that controlled multiple parameters but had forgotten exactly what it did. Only had to play around a little to rediscover, but if it had a custom name, it wouldn't have even been a question.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
the scene may save the channel and bypass state, but the scene itself probably doesn't (currently) store the parameters' values.
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The scene doesn't need to, that information is already contained inside the preset. The scene tells the modeler which channel settings to apply, so effectively the scene knows everything that the preset can do.

This is from the FX3 manual, but applies to all the units:

Screenshot 2023-02-13 at 1.27.55 PM.png
 
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When you’re changing scenes, you don’t want to wait around for the scene to load every parameter of every block. Instead, the scene selects the channel of the block, and bam! It’s done.
 
Rex said:
When you’re changing scenes, you don’t want to wait around for the scene to load every parameter of every block. Instead, the scene selects the channel of the block, and bam! It’s done.
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If there is some kind of delay in loading all the parameters, that would be less than ideal. I would think that updating the state of each parameter would take a fraction of the time that a preset takes to load.

Anyway you slice it, more scene (namable) controllers is needed.
 
Bode said:
If there is some kind of delay in loading all the parameters, that would be less than ideal. I would think that updating the state of each parameter would take a fraction of the time that a preset takes to load.
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Correct. It’s similar to loading a different spreadsheet or document from disk, or a website from the server, versus switching to a different window containing the preloaded information.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
This is the big one, in my mind. In fact, I recently revisited a preset where I had set up a scene controller that controlled multiple parameters but had forgotten exactly what it did. Only had to play around a little to rediscover, but if it had a custom name, it wouldn't have even been a question.
Click to expand...
The Controllers section in -Edit has a list of all assigned modifiers. That can help you find all the stuff assigned to a particular control source. Sadly, it is sorted in who knows what order. I have wished at least once that it could be sorted by the displayed text, for easier finding of stuff....
 
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