Mono/Stereo Cab block with real cab

GuitarAng3l

GuitarAng3l

Member
I finally got a real cabinet and a power amp and trying to fit my signal chain to it.

Normally I run just a simple amp + reverb chains but sometimes I need some ambient / wet solo tones which I archieve with the stereo chorus or some delays.
I run just 1 IR in the center, thats it. When only the reverb is on, it sounds like the guitar sits in the middle, when I add the wet effects it gets wider.

Now with the real cab, I placed the cab block after all the effects and hard panned the same IR L/R. But now my "dry" tone with just reverb is wide too. Is there a way around this?

Otherwise how do I sum the delay and chrous up to mono?

EDIT: What about the Stereo Spread? When I set up a patch in mono, it should be at zero right?
 
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I think you're messing up with the setup... if you use a real cab, why using a cab block?
Maybe you should (after reading the manual and all the threads about mono/stereo) describe what you want to achieve... then there will be plenty of users ready to help!
 
Riccardo Ros said:
describe what you want to achieve
Click to expand...
Sorry! I thought I already was clear enough. I want to use my real cab and send the signal with the IR to the FOH. In order to do that I put the cab block at the end of the chain, after all effects.

Normally my patches are Stereo but with the cab on stage I want switch to a mono signal chain.
I use 1 IR so, there is no panning in the cab block, everything should be mono. But now I get some phase problems.

In order to the signal chain to complete mono, as far as I understand I should use the "mono" effects. OR I use the stereo effects and set the "stereo spread" at 0, right?

What about the Mono Effects, should I set the stereo spread there to 0 too? At default they are at 100%.
With a mono chorus with example I get a huge Volume bumb with stereo spread at 0. With stereo spread at 100% it has the expected volume.

So... what is the "right" to accomplish this? and when using mono effects should the stereo spread be at 100% or 0?
 
I don't mean to be "rude" but did you take the time to study:

You should acquire some "confidence" in using the device and then maybe ask for the "not covered" territory here.

(Of course the "Stereo Spread – Controls stereo width by setting the pan position of the effect from hard-panned (100%) todead mono (0%) – and beyond, with psychoacoustic effects increasing the apparent width from –200% to +200%." but for your use case maybe the options on Outputs should be enough
[page 12 of the manual https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/FM9/FM9-Owners-Manual.pdf]
 
I run OUT1 to my backline Marshall cabs w no cab block, OUT2 to front of house w cab block and OUT3 to my IEMs w cab block adding in a reverb to separate myself from the mix being sent to me.... Happy to dialogue on it should you wish


Screenshot 2024-03-18 at 9.45.26 PM.png
 
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Riccardo Ros said:
You should acquire some "confidence" in using the device and then maybe ask for the "not covered" territory here.
Click to expand...
I already did that and searched the Manual as well as the wiki (and the forum ofc). But I cant find an answer to my question.

And tbh if I use a mono effect why is the stereo spread at default 100%? Doesnt really makes sense to me. And why is there a volume jump when I decrease the stereo spread to 0 on a mono effect like the the "mono chorus"?
Sadly this is something neither the manual or wiki states.
 
I have tried endlessly to rectify stereo effects with mono monitoring, and it really doesn't work in my experience. I recommend driving the stage cab from a signal that is before the stereo chorus/delay. Keep it simple and leave the effects for FOH. You can add a reverb block just for the stage cab to wet it a bit. This would allow you to keep the CAB block where you had it before, and have the stereo bit sound the best possible way out front.

I use stereo FRFR wedges onstage, smaller and lighter than an amp and cab, plus stereo.
 
Volume level is affected by the method. As signal is panned between 0 and 100, it creates phase-cancellation at various frequencies. In order to pan >100%, I believe that it starts subtracting frequencies from the opposite side in order to enhance the effect.

From the manual:
Stereo Spread – Controls stereo width by setting the pan position of an effect from hard-panned (100%) to reverse panned (-100%) to dead mono (0%) – and beyond, with psychoacoustic effects increasing the apparent width with values from –200% to +200%.
 
elvis said:
Volume level is affected by the method. As signal is panned between 0 and 100, it creates phase-cancellation at various frequencies. In order to pan >100%, I believe that it starts subtracting frequencies from the opposite side in order to enhance the effect.
Click to expand...
I understand that but for me it only makes sense when I use stereo effects. But why is there a level add when I select a mono effect like chorus for example. Every effect does that except the mono flanger.

For stereo effects it makes 100% sense but not for mono. Or is the mono chorus tweaked like "mono" with the stereo spread at 100%?
 
A few things @GuitarAng3l
  1. Do you wish to send a stereo signal (with Cab sims) to FOH?
  2. If so, your cab block will need to be setup for stereo.
  3. If you will be summing any output, stay away from stereo specific effects. A few have one side of the stereo effect set 'out of phase' ('2290', and 'Ambient Stereo' delays, '80s Style' and 'Triangle' Chorus)
In most cases, if you have your stereo presets setup up correctly for mono compatibility, and don't have completely different tones in the Left and Right sides, you can leave all outputs set to stereo, and just use one side for any mono playback system.

We'll need more specifics to advise for your specific needs.
 
@Moke
1. No a mono signal. As I said in post #4 I only use 1 single IR without any paning.
2. Sure! But the signal I want to get out is mono.
3. I know, that is the reason I use the "mono" version of the effect.

Moke said:
you can leave all outputs set to stereo, and just use one side for any mono playback system.
Click to expand...
That is interesting! I didnt know that, thank you!

My problem is, that I want to use the mono version of effects like chorus or delay. The default value for stereo spread is 100% (we are still talking about the mono effect). When I turn the stereo spread down to 0 I got a volume bump.
 
GuitarAng3l said:
I understand that but for me it only makes sense when I use stereo effects. But why is there a level add when I select a mono effect like chorus for example. Every effect does that except the mono flanger.

For stereo effects it makes 100% sense but not for mono. Or is the mono chorus tweaked like "mono" with the stereo spread at 100%?
Click to expand...
Mono effects still have a right and left input and output. every block, shunt and virtual cable on the grid is stereo. Mono effects don't sum the dry signal, that remains stereo. Only the effect output is mono.
 
GuitarAng3l said:
My problem is, that I want to use the mono version of effects like chorus or delay. The default value for stereo spread is 100% (we are still talking about the mono effect). When I turn the stereo spread down to 0 I got a volume bump.
Click to expand...
That's an artifact of adding two mono digital paths together. That parameter might be useful for some situations? But just leave it at default.
 
Moke said:
Mono effects don't sum the dry signal, that remains stereo. Only the effect output is mono.
Click to expand...
AHH!! Thank you!! This makes sense. So when I turn the stereo spread to 0 I bascially add the right and left side of the effect into one. I thought the whole time that this is the case only when using stereo effects. Thank you!
 
If you're intent is to always only run mono on stage, and to front of house, then just stay with the mono versions, when available, of all effects. And especially stay away from the phase inverted stereo effects that I mentioned above. Unless there is something about them that you really like, in which case you can set the phase inversion off.
 
Moke said:
then just stay with the mono versions, when available, of all effects
Click to expand...
Yeah I already do that, but I was confused about the stereo spread on a mono effect. The manual and wiki states that the stereo spread should be at zero when used mono, when I did that there was the volume bump.
But as I learned now that is only the case for stereo effects and not for mono effects.
 
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