Model of the Mesa Boogie Mark series on-board graphic eq

Model of the Mesa Boogie Mark series on-board graphic eq


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Guitar-Tiz said:
Sebastian said:
FractalAudio said:
Use the Parametric or Graphic EQ. FWIW, the EQ in the Mark series sucks. It's a crude, clunky and limited design. The EQ in the Axe-Fx is far superior and much more flexible.

:mrgreen: hehe, somehow I'm not surprised by this answer...

+1 on Guitar-Tiz's question. It's not that important for me, but I'm curious and would like to know.

The only reason I wonder is, if it does make a difference, then wouldn't it be nice to be able to put ANY block between the preamp, and poweramp?

If that's the case, then maybe what we need is a way to put in some sort of FXloop, for the ampblocks?

Maybe link it to an "amp- loop-in block", and an "amp-loop-out block" for each amp block?

Drop in the loop-out-1, a bunch of FX, and then the loop-in-1, go into amp block-1 and turn on the loop, and bingo!

It would be a great place for Reverbs, and EQ's at the least.

Then again if it doesn't make a difference, then it's moot, now isn't it... :D

Cliff has already said for technical reasons he can not disclose that is not possible.
 
javajunkie said:
Guitar-Tiz said:
....The only reason I wonder is, if it does make a difference, then wouldn't it be nice to be able to put ANY block between the preamp, and poweramp?
Cliff has already said for technical reasons he can not disclose that is not possible.


Ah phooey, he also said that about being able to control the Amp block's Drive drive control with Midi CC too. ;) :mrgreen: ;)
 
shredi knight said:
javajunkie said:
[quote="Guitar-Tiz":1mr5cps7]

....The only reason I wonder is, if it does make a difference, then wouldn't it be nice to be able to put ANY block between the preamp, and poweramp?
Cliff has already said for technical reasons he can not disclose that is not possible.


Ah phooey, he also said that about being able to control the Amp block's Drive drive control with Midi CC too. ;) :mrgreen: ;)[/quote:1mr5cps7]

No he never said it was not possible. He always said it would incur too much CPU. Which it does!
 
Hi Cliff,

Not trying to beat the dead horse, but...

If you are able, could you please at least give us some firm guidlines for more accurately simulating the graphic EQ found on the Mesa mark series amps? As has been mentioned, there is still a definite need/desire for this, as the information circulating around regarding the calculated values does not seem to produce an accurate reproduction when put into practical use. I know that Shredi and I are not the only ones who would be incredibly grateful for your time and expert ears/knowledge in helping us to achieve a more accurate simulation of some of our most favorite amps. The exact bands, the Q (and how this changes with the amount of cut or boost), the way the phase changes with cut or boost... These are all things that very intelligent people like you understand how to work out, while the rest of us try to fumble around with using our ears and limited understanding. We've been fumbling for a while, but are still anxious for a better answer.

In the case of the request for an actual model of the Mesa EQ or for it to be coded into the USA and MIIC amp simms...

I understand that the Mesa EQ may not be elegant, but please try to understand that, warts and all, it is as important to that amp's overall tone as something as characteristic as its tone stack is. Perhaps because it *is* crude, clunky, or limited, it is that much more essential. Most of the things we as musicians love can be described by these words (tube amps in general), but this is part of their appeal. Remember, the EQ on this amp is being used more in a fashion akin to its basic tone controls than the way a recording engineer would look at sophisticated EQing in the mix. I can, in all honesty say, that if the graphic EQ should suddenly disappear off of the front of my Mark IV, it would render the amp unplayable IMHO. If I had to use only an external EQ to shape the tone after it had been recorded, it would yield a far different result. It is ultimately your decision, but one man's opinion is that it would be unfortunate to have gotten so close in so many other respects and to leave this particular stone unturned.

Why such a fuss? The reason such accuracy is important to me, personally, lies in how I use the Axe-Fx. For me, I've found my tone(s). I've achieved these with a number of real world amps and other gear. I'm not looking to reinvent any of this, but instead find a more convenient method of getting these sounds on record. So for me, the Axe-Fx is a tool I am coming to rely upon for direct recording (something that I would have never thought about doing for any serious project in the past). I know this is different for some others (lots of ways to use the Axe-Fx for sure), but this particular use is probably shared by a great many. Here, I think (once again, for my own purposes), that accuracy is more important than flexibility or even improvement. My ultimate desire is that my direct recorded tones match what my real-amps sound like when properly recorded using high production standards--no more, no less. I can say that your Axe-Fx has given me hope (where hope never dwelt) that this is where we can eventually get to.

Please understand that even if your ultimate answer is "no," that I appreciate your constant improvements and innovations.

Cheers,
-Matt

FractalAudio said:
Use the Parametric or Graphic EQ. FWIW, the EQ in the Mark series sucks. It's a crude, clunky and limited design. The EQ in the Axe-Fx is far superior and much more flexible.

If you need to, you can copy the Mesa EQ using the Parametric EQ block.
 
I guess I'm a bit confused, why couldn't it just be added like any other parameter in the amp sim. No need to split them up, just have a parameter that dups the 5band graphic before the power amp parameters. But, what do I know, I have a hell of a time just keeping my home computers from self destructing. :lol:
 
the para eq works for me, but i'm sure it's not 100% exact. i bet the mesa eq changes q values as the slider is increased or decreased, it's not constant like the one in the axe.
 
One thing that might satisfy the Boogie fans and keep within Cliff's constraints is
to do what what the Boogie Triaxis does to emulate the Mark's:
Have a limited number of the most useful Mark graphic EQ "smile" curves as presets you can dial up.
I used to own a Triaxis and I really only used one gentle curve most of the time.
 
rockridge98 said:
One thing that might satisfy the Boogie fans and keep within Cliff's constraints is
to do what what the Boogie Triaxis does to emulate the Mark's:
Have a limited number of the most useful Mark graphic EQ "smile" curves as presets you can dial up.
I used to own a Triaxis and I really only used one gentle curve most of the time.

1. The Dynamic Voice on the Triaxis sounds terrible unless you're after a totally "scooped" heavy metal sound. Even then it's sort of cold sounding. It's not nearly as versatile as the Mark Series EQ's. The Mark Series EQs are sort of lo-tech but they were effective.

2. The only way to get an effect in the Axe that is similar to what Mesa has been doing with their Mark Series graphic EQs would be to have a virtual effects loop between the Axe's preamp sim and its power amp sim, and I don't think Cliff will *ever* do that. Maybe on the next generation product.
IMO It's the way he should have done it in the first place. But it is what it is and it does sound real good the way it is.

For now, just try a GEQ or PEQ either in front of the Amp block or after it. That's as good as it's gonna get guys.
 
count me among the boogie users that DOESN'T really see the need for this. A) I don't think that putting the EQ after the amp block is really much different than sticking it between the pre and power amp, unless you are using such extreme settings that somehow affect the power tubes, and B) You actually get alot more control with the Axe's various EQ's than the Boogie 5 bander. Personally, I like that the AxeFx tends to give much MORE tonal shaping possibilities for the various models, rather than just trying to duplicate only the controls that are on the amp.
 
When I got my Mk IV (Real world) I used the EQ to set up my tones right from the start. I discovered after about a year that I liked the tone much more by shaping it without the EQ and using it for a boost/tone shaping tool when needed. I sold the MK IV and have been pretty bummed about it, but I won't be after I get the Ultra!
 
The reason I would like to have the EQ with the mark series model is to be able to use a mark-style global amp without redialing the EQ for each preset. Global EQ could be an alternative to me as well, but the fact of using only one global block is really interesting. That global EQ possibilty is really important for the mark I think, but that would be really interesting with other amps models as well.

what do you think?
 
Idea:

Perhaps Cliff could approach it this way for simplicity - One control that goes from 0 to -10, which controls an extremely wide cut EQ centered at 750z (the mid point of the Mesa 5-band) Seems like it could be very efficient on resources that way, yet achieve all of the popular 'smile' settings. Howz about it?
 
Radley said:
Idea:

Perhaps Cliff could approach it this way for simplicity - One control that goes from 0 to -10, which controls an extremely wide cut EQ centered at 750z (the mid point of the Mesa 5-band) Seems like it could be very efficient on resources that way, yet achieve all of the popular 'smile' settings. Howz about it?

That's what they tried to do on the Triaxis.
It sounds terrible on the TA.
Cliff could probably do a better job of it, but I doubt that he will.
 
joegold said:
Radley said:
Idea:

Perhaps Cliff could approach it this way for simplicity - One control that goes from 0 to -10, which controls an extremely wide cut EQ centered at 750z (the mid point of the Mesa 5-band) Seems like it could be very efficient on resources that way, yet achieve all of the popular 'smile' settings. Howz about it?

That's what they tried to do on the Triaxis.
It sounds terrible on the TA.
Cliff could probably do a better job of it, but I doubt that he will.

Plus, he'd have to place it between the Amp Block's preamp and its power amp.
Not gonna happen people.
 
My latest feature request (see Graphic EQ scaling) would go a long way towards accomplishing this - simply scale the Graphic to where the 1Kz = 750z (-25%) and you're on your way ;)

~Rad~
 
Or just use the PEQ. It has the same number of bands as the Mesa EQ and they can be individually dialed in for both frequency and Q.
 
Is this a variation of listening with ones eyes vs. listening with ones ears? Never had a Mark series nor the need to replicate one, but it sounds like we have the facilities to shape the Eq any way we want as far as we listen for the sound we want rather than look for the sliders? May be missing the point completely here though.
 
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