Mixing Woes

swass

swass

Power User
(Disclaimer: NEWB!)

Over the past few months or so I've made up my mind to really sink my teeth into, "the DAW" realm of recording. I've mucked around with it over the past couple years here and there for shits and giggles to do up some sound bites over the time. What I've learnt over the past few months is that when I go to mix something and get it to sound adequate, (subject to opinions) through the near-fields but when I play back the render it sounds nothing like what I am originally hearing/mixing. This has brought to my attention that my room really sucks for mixing due to bad acoustics.

I have taken upon myself to research out acoustic treatment. That is being tackled as we speak but I'm curious if anyone has used/uses a product called, ARC 2 by IK Multimedia, (link below). It has gotten a lot of good reviews. Any thoughts or opinions on this product and or acoustic treatment based on experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


IK Multimedia | ARC System 2
 
3 things to consider:

Speaker/monitor type
speaker placement
room acoustics

If your happy with the mix at home, but it doesn't sound good elsewhere than its one of those 3 things above. ARC is cool, but I'd start with 3 thing above. Get that as close to suitable as possible, and then add the ARC system if it still needs minor adjustments.
 
ARC2: I fu**in' Love it. User from v1, no regrets...best Bang for Buck....and Way cheaper than "analog" Room threatment...and no Need for additional Knowledge ....quick & dirty :)
 
toolfanem said:
3 things to consider:

Speaker/monitor type
speaker placement
room acoustics

If your happy with the mix at home, but it doesn't sound good elsewhere than its one of those 3 things above. ARC is cool, but I'd start with 3 thing above. Get that as close to suitable as possible, and then add the ARC system if it still needs minor adjustments.
Click to expand...

Monitor type and placement is taken care of. Dealing with the acoustics and diffusion.

funkstation777 said:
ARC2: I fu**in' Love it. User from v1, no regrets...best Bang for Buck....and Way cheaper than "analog" Room threatment...and no Need for additional Knowledge ....quick & dirty :)
Click to expand...

I picked up ARC2 of Evilbay for $150 and am looking forward to using it once I do some acoustical diffusion.
 
Room correction can help, but there are some serious limitations. Room EQ and standing waves can change significantly within just a couple of inches. How steady can you hold your head during a session? And which ear you gonna correct for, and which ear will you let go? :)

IMO, taming those wavefronts with acoustic treatment will be more helpful.
 
With ARC you can create several Sweet Spots and the more measures you make, the better accuracy you get...so you can create "Nearfield" Spots or Presets with a bigger Distance to the Audio System ...

Important is to keep the right Distance according to the right Preset to avoid Phase and frequency issues.
 
My home mix room is treated with RealTraps. Not perfect but pretty decent.

I've got the first version of Arc. I wasn't getting much from it. The low-end seemed way off to my ears. My mixes sounded better with the plug off than on.

I just read the Arc2 review in Sound On Sound magazine. From the review it looks like they have addressed the low end somewhat.
 
It's a big question and the answers often depend on how serious you want to develop your skill set. Starting with room treatment and a great monitor chain is wise.

There is so much to the chain, so much to consider and then additional levels upon levels of refinement and then more detailed refinement that happens through experience. There is just no way around that 'time' behind the board. Room correction EQ has been around for decades. Even my Tascam SX-1 had it built into the console. I believe JBL does it well with their RMC system because the user is often employing a base standard using JBL high-end monitors to send the measurement waves to/from. Still it is no replacement, nor even a genuine compromise for a treated room, great monitors and the time to get used to the room. JBL knows this also. Corrective EQ is best when employed in an environment that doesn't need much of it. It is built in to my LSR 4328 monitors and it is useful for that last 5-10% room clarity.

There are different camps. I realize you have already purchased the software, but from this camp corrective EQ software will weaken your ears if you rely on it to mix. You will always be less tuned-in as it doesn't 'control' low-end or room reflections, but rather 'cuts' them out with EQ. By default, this is also cutting out some sonic and acoustic information that you want. It will 'undevelop' your sense for proper sound placement in the long run (just like auto-fill for passwords, user names etc. weakens your memory). It 'compensates' with EQ to help improve a mix instead of having to learn the room and compensating yourself. Its not just 'learning' the room per se, its learning what is what. Developing your ears. You really want that skill available when you have the engineers hat on or as a musician in general. Corrective EQ software may provide some instant crutch, but quick and dirty is what an average home studio demo sounds like. That is OK and even usuable nowadays as average level production becomes more and more acceptable, but if you want to produce music even on a 'semi professional' level, then you are well off to spend time learning the craft 'old school' through increased sonic perception.

BigD1977 mentioned reference tracks. That is a +10. Learning how to capture tones and then mix tones by listening and matching great production is the fast route to great audio.
Developing your ears and sense of sonic space is a god send as you age. Once you dig in a bit I think you will see, just as all worthwhile crafts such as playing guitar, there are no short-cuts. The 'fastest' way to great results is the slow steady, consistent pace. The $150 bucks could buy 2 more Bass Traps. :)
 
If your playback system, including the room, is seriously altering what you hear, then your mixes are harder to translate to other playback system's and rooms.

With limited $$, I recommend you: 1. spend all that you can reasonable afford to get your mix system and room as good as you can afford. 2. Learn what the remaining problems are and train your ears to compensate.

For example, my room has a peak around the open A note of the bass guitar and octaves up, i.e. the open A on a regular guitar.

Because of this certain notes howl or the low end seems to jump out. I learn not to correct too much for this because if I do, then the mix really ends up too notched around the note A. I'm compensating for the room not what is really in the recording.

This is why getting a great room, even more than great monitors, is the best. And why engineers say, "I mixed platinum album X on these cheap monitors...". But they are in a $$$$$$ room where they can hear what has really been recorded.

In those rooms, cheap monitors sound better than you could imagine.
 
Thanks guys for all the very useful tips and sound advice. I am by no means looking to take short-cuts to compromise what I need to do with my abilities. I do pride myself in listening with what God gave me to listen with... which usually means to keep my mouth shut more often in order to do so...lol.

I'm in no position to spend "mucho denaro" neither, apart from diy room treatment. And thanks "Xrocker" for the link. Found some really useful stuff there to chew on. It has been bookmarked. I also realize this is not an easy undertaking to acoustically treat a room for optimal listening with the realization that it'll never be perfect. I just need to start somewhere to improve what I have for a room. As I gain the practical/hands on/trial and error knowledge and simply build from there is why I elected for ARC2 to aid me for the time being. That makes the most sense to me at this time. And thank you, "BIgD1977" for you reference track suggestion. I'll definitely take to that and put it to work for me.

Again, thanks all for your input.

Peace.
 
Check out Owens Corning 703 acoustic panels. You can buy the fiber and make the panels yourself. You should put some in the corners, hang a couple from the ceiling and put one or two on each wall. The sound improvement will be considerable.
 
The difference beetween a Multi Platinum Selling album and a Demo-like sounding Album isn't just about only Room treatening, acoustic elements, and Monitors Alone...

It's about Good musicians Recording with Good Equipment in a Good Environment, about Good Engineers with Tons of Knowledge and Gear ... And so on...and the weakest Part of the Chain can Hide itself everywhere....

But what i wanted to say is, that a reference Track used in a non-corrected room can't help at all to get your Mix right.
And we are Not Talking about room Treatment like Professional Recording Studios (which are in Most Cases planned and constructed by Audio-pro's) we are Talking about getting the Mix right in your Environment without robbing a Bank for the Money that is needed.

If your homerecording room has frequency Problems, Phase issues, room modes, and reflections, and you can't analyze the frequency issues, your Mix will suck. No matter how much you listen to some Chris Lord Alge Reference Track or similar..
Cause your reference Track will also be masked by the room issues.

Carpets, Curtains and Absorbers will handle the Problems maybe in a Range from 5 kHz and up, but the Real problems you can't analyze by "Ear", if your Name is Not Ted Jensen or Howie Weinberg...

I don't want to say "fu** the reference Tracks" i want to say "learn from the Track in a Controlled Environment.

And, to be honest, there are only 2 affordable Systems to get this Job done for small money in a Good quality:
The KRK Ergo (Hardware) and the
ARC 2 (Software) which is Way better than the First Version.

But you have to use them in the "Sweet Spot" because all the corrections made by these Systems lead to brutal Phase and frequency issues Outside the Mixing Sweet Spot ...

If i had the Money to get an Audio pro get my Music room right with Absorbers, diffusors, Helmholtz-Resonators, Bass-Traps (for the proper function all of them have to be "tuned" exactly to fit ...) oh Yeah, I would to it, dammit...

But the next Fine piece of Equipment is already on it's Way, because i saved the Money by using the ARC...

A Little tip for acoustic Hobby forensic Freaks: the cheap Behringer measurement mic ECM 8000(which is a Little similar to the ARC included measurement Mic) and the Freeware " Room EQ Wizard" can help you find Out frequency and Phase issues for your room...but believe me....it's a hellride....
 
Well I think the above is kind of true. But the strength of the audio operator is very crucial. I've seen people, myself included, who learned to operate in rooms not finely tuned. But when you learn how to compensate, that's the clue. Learn your room. The panels helped me tremendously. No it was not finely tuned. But I have various tools like Spectrafoo, which isn't necessarily designed for this specific purpose, but you can use it successfully. There are other cheap (free) alternatives that are designed for the job.

If you have the musicianship, composition, arrangement and production handled - no small feat - and it comes to mix time, you need to find whatever reference material you need. You must listen to these and your various mix attempts on many reference monitors, including cars, iPods, various stereo systems and take many notes. I also use Spectrafoo to SEE what is happening with frequencies and energy levels, phase, etc..

Building those OC 703 panels and placing them, even though I didn't place them scientifically, helped TREMENDOUSLY. I built a studio where my band recorded, and I recorded other bands and I mixed and mastered. It worked for me and my clients. It all depends on what you want to do and how much money you're willing to spend. I can't afford to spend thousands on this. PLUS I'm kind of cheap. But it worked very well.
 
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