Mixer volume levels, amp volume, VU Meter, etc.

I

imrecs

Inspired
Noticed a lot of presets go over 0db of the VU meter...wondering what's the optimal way to gainstage my own presets I am building?

Currently I have 2 non master volume amps in parallel (master volume wide open, but mixer volume at -21 / -18db respectively) prior to hitting a single stereo cab, level at 0 db...signal was just under 0dbfs on the VU meters when checking the utility page. I noticed that the output was a lot lower than most factory presets, though the presets went over 0dbfs most of the time. To get mine to the same relative volume I am going over 0 about 5db.

Just thought this would be a good opportunity to ask about gain staging from input to output. Here is what I did so far:

Instrument volume: since I am using some boost/od/fuzz pedals in front of the axe, I keep the instrument level pretty low (20%, as opposed to 100% when no pedals are in front)...this doesn't seem to make any difference to the straight tone.

Input Trim set to 1.0 (default)

Master Volume on 10 (Tweed Deluxe + Deluxe Verb, both non master volume amps)

Input Drive set to taste.

Mixer Level set to balance both parallel amps, and keep VU meter just under 0dbfs

Cabinet Mixer Volume level at 0db

Any suggestions would be great. thanks!
 
I leave cab blk level at 0 and make all level changes to the amp blk level control. The fact that factory presets might be loader means maybe you need to lower the ones you use instead of making your customer ones match the factory ones
 
0dB on the Axe's VU meters is not 0dBFS. It is closer to -12dBFS. The meter is setup that way to encourage people to leave plenty of headroom in their presets. Aim for 0db average on the VU meter and you'll be set. It's totally fine for peaks to go over zero on the VU meter since the headroom is already factored in. Amp block output level is usually the best place to balance preset levels since that's where most of the signal gain takes place. That way all the other blocks can be left at 0dB unless a boost or cut is specifically needed.
 
thanks mr_fender. any reason to go for more volume on the amp blocks than I currently have (2 amps blended, -21db and -18db respectively), hitting about -1 on the VU meter when pushed to it's limit....I can go louder in the amp block if it will better the sound at all in live, or recording situations.
 
more level using the output level parameter in the amp block does not change the tone. -1dB on the VU is a good area to hit for your average volume when playing.

i'm still curious what you mean when you say "mixer level"?
 
What Chris said about 0 dB on the VU meter not being 0 dBfs. Zero on the VU meter is just a good target to achieve high signal-to-noise ratio but still have plenty of headroom.

Gain staging within the Axe itself isn't critical. Internally, there's more than 1400 dB of dynamic range, so you'll just about never clip internally. It's clipping at the output that'll get you.
 
I use the AMP block level control too for overall preset volume.

Without any boosts / drives engaged I strum hard and get the Utility VU page to hit around 0 VU.

My drives and boosts are about 4db hotter so 0 VU leaves plenty of room.

With front panel Output 1 at noon, these settings are plenty hot enough to drive a mixing desk without introducing unwanted noise.

I have an AxeFx II Mark I too. The analog bits are still extremely low noise. You don't have to crank the preset or overall output; the S/N is really good.
 
A preset does not have to be as loud as possible without clipping for best sound quality (this is the digital realm). The idea is to make all your presets as consistent as possible when comparing apparent volume. Using 0dB as your ideal level gives you room to tweak a preset that is comparatively louder or softer without clipping or raising the noise floor noticeably.

As for your instrument input level differences, you said it sounds fine with pedals on or off so, you are probably fine there. There are ways to get around that but in short if you are getting enough signal in when pedals are bypassed and your front panel LEDs are not consistently in the red when they are engaged, then you are good.

Hope that helped some. If you want to dig deeper Chris's vids are a great resource.
 
Radix Lecti said:
As for your instrument input level differences, you said it sounds fine with pedals on or off so, you are probably fine there. There are ways to get around that but in short if you are getting enough signal in when pedals are bypassed and your front panel LEDs are not consistently in the red when they are engaged, then you are good.
Click to expand...

Can you explain some of the "ways to get around" the instrument input level differences? I don't necessarily hear more noise, though the fact that when I run my guitar with no pedals in front, instrument level is on 100%, and when I run my overdrive/fuzz/boosters in front, I have to go down to 20%, makes me a bit concerned (if there was absolutely no difference then there would be no need for the feature in the first place, so perhaps it's something I will notice at higher volumes...?)

For most of my ODs and Fuzz pedals I can gain stage their output volume down and use the drive/fuzz to get my tone...though there are 3 or 4 that rely on using the volume to push the power amp into overdrive to get their "sound". The loudest one I use is an Analogman Beano Boost...it's a treble booster, where I don't start getting the tone I want until 3'oclock on the pedal...sounds great through a tube amp and through the axe, but this is the pedal that forces me to bring the instrument level down to 20% (and the red light still goes on occasionally).

I would love to hear some ways to get around this, so I could maximize the signal to noise ratio from my Strat when it's clean, as well as with all the various od, fuzz and boosters I am running in front.
 
You must have some really low output pickups if you have the input level at 100%. Are you using the front or rear inputs? There is not really any getting around proper gain staging. The input has to be adjusted to ensure proper signal to noise ratio and to avoid clipping. If you want to be able to use external pedals in front to push the amp models harder, then input gain will have to be low to avoid clipping and you will have to settle for a lower signal to noise ratio when the pedal is off unless you adjust the input level each time.
 
Just set the input level to where the red light just barely dlickers when you're bangingnaway on the hottest signal that you send to the Axe. Done.
 
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