Mix vs individual mics

jlynnb1

jlynnb1

Axe-Master
What do most of you roll with? I've been using mix ir's exclusively since they came out, but then I hear some of the recordings with single mic ir's and wonder if I'm selling myself short a bit. (Some of Tyler's tones jump to mind)

What say the masses?
 
Depends. Sometimes when I get tired of the IR 'rabbit hole', I just think of the great recordings created with just a SM57 and return to that. Makes stuff a whole lot simpler. For example I'm a fan of the S545 Cone in the TAF collection. Single mic, works.
 
Im currently experimenting recording with far, centre, side and rear ir captures of the same speaker. Involves multiple takes and panned just right u get a nice thick juicy sound.

Problem with mixed Irs is u cant balance them yourself. If u want to

Regards,
 
It's all about how the result mixes with other sounds.

A single mic like an SM57 can sit in a mix differently that multiple mic's.

So, depending on how you are mixing your band or record, either technique can work or not. No right or wrong answer here.

In casual gigs or shows where you don't spend a lot of time mixing and just play, a single mic can be easier to deal with. The SM57 just works without a lot of effort. Less time and more fun :)
 
Yeah I know there aren't any rules, just wondering what people takes are.

Back when I was using real amps it was always a 57 off axis about 2" from the cone or a e609/906 hanging in the same spot. One mic, no fuss.

I love my tones and the mixes sound great, not a satisfaction issue, more of a curiosity issue.
 
You referenced me, but I'll give my take:

Mixes are good for beginners allowing for an easy access to properly EQ'd mix-ready type guitar tones. BUT, they are mixed by someone else's ears using different guitars and amps then you will be using. Which means there's a SMALL chance a mix'd IR will be the holy grail IR capture, but the odds are not in your favor.

Understanding basic studio techniques such as mic placement and the most popular mics (U87, SM57, R121, etc) will allow you to customize your IR selection quicker with better results IMO.

... FWIW everytime I use a Mixed IR capture, I feel like the sound is to "dense" and stuffy sounding. never harsh or anything, but I always seem to loose a little bit of tonal control from my guitar.
 
I use both single mic's and mixes. And mixes of single mic's. And mixes of mixes.

I just get a goal in mind and then work backwards towards that goal. I've been 'in the rabbit hole' for years with both digital and analog gear; what matters less is 'how' or 'what' and I lean more to 'why' and then expedite my tones towards that. Personally my goals tend to be a hybrid of the 'best of both worlds' between what a classic recorded tone would offer and a 'live in your face' tone would offer. I shoot for that balance. Experience mic'ing real amps with real mic's and real preamps and EQ is invaluable in the whole 'jumping into the rabbit hole' thing.

It's something that pays off quickly with a box that can be as deep as you want it to be and IR's are a huge component of it. But at the same time...

I also think people overthink a lot of things with the AFXII and IR's; you don't *need* to do any of the rabbit hole stuff. It's just personal preference to chase it if you are so inclined.

In the end, a well captured SM57 IR is worth it's weight in gold once you drop it into a mix. I tend to prefer the classic R121/SM57 (with a 1:3 (one part SM57/three parts R121) ratio to start... and most times finish. I am also fond of a dynamic (eg: SM57) with a ribbon (eg: R121) and a condenser (eg: U87) in a mix like this: R121@0db, SM57@-6db, U87@-12db). That - very often - just works perfect assuming proper captures of the original IR's (phase coherence, etc).
 
I like the goal oriented approach too.

I use an SM57 for knarl and midrange.

LDC, like the U87 for low end (and proximity in the cab block with it)

I like the ribbon mics for low-mids and overall tone. They have a warmth and a fullness to my ear that just really sounds big and pleasing. They can sound deceptively dark. But if you are a low-mid junky, they really deliver the best low-mids for me.

So I might load in a ribbon mic IR and then blend in an SM57 for some cut and to make it a little more knarly.

Or load up an SM57 IR and put the LDC condenser mic type on it with a little proximity etc.
 
ha, I totally agree with all you guys, and think along the same lines, was just curious to hear what every one else does. I have been using the mixes a lost exclusively since they came out, but thought I might start experimenting a bit for fun.
 
I asked all these questions and many more questions. I could never get a really great sound out of the mixes, nor out of single IR's and always had to combine at least 2 IR's and then use a lot of EQ or tonematch. I did get lot's of advice all over the internet and also from some of my pro friends, but the answers I got just didn't add up, and I was not satisfied and decided to find out for myself.

I think I was right in that the traditional way to mic a cab's "sweet spot" for live guitar applications is not the best way to capture a cab for FRFR. Even doing it the way they do it in studio sessions, the IR's are ok, and do capture a decent snapshot of the character and tone, but they always need to be mixed and never work singularly for me. In the end, I rented some decent mic's and a couple cabs, along with my own collection of mic's and cabs, and did a bunch of shoots with cab lab. I had a very good experience doing this, which helped a lot to figure out which IR's will mix together best and why I would actually want to mix them.

What started me down this line of thought was, I played for many many years just mic'ing a single speaker off a 4x12 and I could never get the same experience from an IR taken from the exact same position. My best mixes are from using Mic shoots that capture an entire room in conjunction with the Cabinet. Believe it or not, using a cheap $70 Behringer ECM8000 RTA condenser mic gave me the IR's that really have it, it's nearly the flattest mic you can buy for that price, and it eliminates any coloration, which then means it all comes down to placement.

Seriously I recommend to rent a couple different mic's, and get at least one RTA if you can and do some shoots yourself, using a cab that you know well. It is an eye opener.
 
I am totally uninterested in the whole rabbit hole deal. I just use stock cabs. I only use two of them 1X12 Black for clean and 4X12 V30 (RW) for high gain. I have a tone I am happy with and I move on from there to just enjoy playing the guitar and writing cool tunes. I don't wanna get bogged down in details and diminishing returns. But that's just me.
 
geamala said:
I am totally uninterested in the whole rabbit hole deal. I just use stock cabs. I only use two of them 1X12 Black for clean and 4X12 V30 (RW) for high gain. I have a tone I am happy with and I move on from there to just enjoy playing the guitar and writing cool tunes. I don't wanna get bogged down in details and diminishing returns. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Same here, I gravitate back towards the recto v30 v12 RW with 121 on it. I mess with IR's occasionally but I end up going back to what I know. I use the TV mix on some marshall tones.
 
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