Missing lowend in Cygnus on real cab

This post simply made me curious as hell to try Cygnus with my Trainwreck Clone Tube Amp FX Loop. I'm dying to see how it would react on my T75/G12 Greenback Heritage Speakers.
And be sure that T75 have a TON of low end, that why they sit so well with 800s/900s/VOX. They complete each other
 
I just compared my real 5150 directly into a cab vs Cygnus’ PVH 6160 Block model through a Matrix power amp into the same cabinet and dimed the bass and depth on the amp and model for maximum bass and “oomph.” They’re nearly identical. You can also try lowering the Depth frequency in the Power Amp page of the Amp block. I haven’t compared it with Cygnus yet, but in the past I think I lowered the Depth Frequency to around 120-140Hz for it to better match my real amp.

The only thing I can think of is checking the internal wiring in your ENGL cab to make sure it’s correct. The lack of bass you’re getting could mean something is out of phase in your cabinet and you’re having to boost low end to compensate for internal frequency cancellations.
 
York Audio said:
I just compared my real 5150 directly into a cab vs Cygnus’ PVH 6160 Block model through a Matrix power amp into the same cabinet and dimed the bass and depth on the amp and model for maximum bass and “oomph.” They’re nearly identical. You can also try lowering the Depth frequency in the Power Amp page of the Amp block. I haven’t compared it with Cygnus yet, but in the past I think I lowered the Depth Frequency to around 120-140Hz for it to better match my real amp.

The only thing I can think of is checking the internal wiring in your ENGL cab to make sure it’s correct. The lack of bass you’re getting could mean something is out of phase in your cabinet and you’re having to boost low end to compensate for internal frequency cancellations.
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If Justin validates, it's without any doubt right!
 
Omri Bazelet said:
If Justin validates, it's without any doubt right!
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HAHAHA! Well I'm far from infallible and pretty sure Cliff has wanted to smack me a time or two when I've been wrong, but I know what it's like to feel like something is "off" and it's always a blessing when people to chime in with possible solutions.

@Leise, if it's not the cab's wiring, it's gotta be something else in the line that's causing the loss of bass like maybe a bad cable connecting the Axe to the power amp. Also, if you're using the Matrix, you'll want to turn its volume way up to around 2 o'clock to full and use the Axe's OUT 1 volume knob as your main volume control. The Matrix can sound thinner if its volume level is too low.

I hope this helps!
 
So I tried the preset with the Cygnus beta through a Matrix GT1000FX going through two EVM12L loaded 1x12s. I used my Les Paul which is pretty dark sounding. I played at a bedroom or tv volume. Even at that low volume, there was quite a bit of thump. There wasn't so much bass or fullness, but there was quite a bit of hard hitting sub frequencies, especially with palm muting. I bypassed the cab sim during this. I would think that if I turned it up to band levels it would just be overwhelming. I hope this helps.
 
York Audio said:
@Leise, if it's not the cab's wiring, it's gotta be something else in the line that's causing the loss of bass like maybe a bad cable connecting the Axe to the power amp. Also, if you're using the Matrix, you'll want to turn its volume way up to around 2 o'clock to full and use the Axe's OUT 1 volume knob as your main volume control. The Matrix can sound thinner if its volume level is too low.

I hope this helps!
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I will check the wireing but i don´t think there is an issue because i own this cab for 25 years now :)
The only thing where an issue could be is the connection from Axe to poweramp.
I connected the Mesa via normal cable and the Matrix via XLR and i only switch the Speakercable from the mesa to the Matrix when going to the othe poweramp.

What makes me wonder is that in 15.1 with the dynamic depth at around 6 i have that oomph what i want...when i turn the dyn. depth to 0 it´s gone. but then the presets from 15.1 to beta sound equal in the low frequencies.
I think i have no hardware problem, but i will rewire the hol thing and check again...mabe it´s a faulty patchcable...:)

By the way it´s nice how many people want to help me... :)
Thank you all
 
Leise said:
I connected the Mesa via normal cable and the Matrix via XLR and i only switch the Speakercable from the mesa to the Matrix when going to the othe poweramp.
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XLRs can invert the phase if they're not wired correctly, it's happened to me a couple times with cables provided by the soundguy
 
DLC86 said:
XLRs can invert the phase if they're not wired correctly, it's happened to me a couple times with cables provided by the soundguy
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Yes i know that....but the only thing changed was firmware...but maybe the is a flaut before and now the impact is much bigger than before..:)
 
Today i checked every cable from axe to poeramp to cab and to speaker.
Also used a multimeter to mesure every cable and the cab.Nothing is out of phase
I can´t find nothing wrong.

Also pulled out my old ADA MP2 and checked for lowend insted off the Axe and the lowend is also there where it has to be :)

Did nobody use his Axe via poweramp and guitarcab and noticed that missing lowend when you use dynamic depth in 15.1 before?

The way chygnus sounds is so much better but the missing lowend i can`t handle well...:-(
 
Not entirely responsive to your question but somewhat germane:

These are rough clips of a Mesa Mark III and the Cygnus C+ Bright Deep model (powered by a Crest CA-9). Apogee condenser mic in front of a Bogner Uberkab.

The amp to my ear has a bit more low end, but it's not worlds apart, and I could add low end to the Fractal in a number of ways if I really cared (the amp model's bass knob is at 1 and depth is completely off, for example).






So I don't know if Cygnus is missing low end compared to Ares (haven't checked), but compared to an amp, it seems about right.
 
Leise said:
Today i checked every cable from axe to poeramp to cab and to speaker.
Also used a multimeter to mesure every cable and the cab.Nothing is out of phase
I can´t find nothing wrong.

Also pulled out my old ADA MP2 and checked for lowend insted off the Axe and the lowend is also there where it has to be :)

Did nobody use his Axe via poweramp and guitarcab and noticed that missing lowend when you use dynamic depth in 15.1 before?

The way chygnus sounds is so much better but the missing lowend i can`t handle well...:-(
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There is no issue with the firmware or Fractal hardware.

Dynamic Depth in Ares amp modeling provided an artificial / non-realistic way to add low end to the sound. You were using a high value.

That parameter has been removed in Cygnus amp modeling, so it's only logical that your sound has changed. Adapt and overcome.

I don't know at what volume level you are playing, with your V30s. If you play at low volume, you won't hear a lot of bass from your guitar speakers.
 
Leise said:
Today i checked every cable from axe to poeramp to cab and to speaker.
Also used a multimeter to mesure every cable and the cab.Nothing is out of phase
I can´t find nothing wrong.

Also pulled out my old ADA MP2 and checked for lowend insted off the Axe and the lowend is also there where it has to be :)

Did nobody use his Axe via poweramp and guitarcab and noticed that missing lowend when you use dynamic depth in 15.1 before?

The way chygnus sounds is so much better but the missing lowend i can`t handle well...:-(
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Check your global EQ.
 
yek said:
There is no issue with the firmware or Fractal hardware.

Dynamic Depth in Ares amp modeling provided an artificial / non-realistic way to add low end to the sound. You were using a high value.

That parameter has been removed in Cygnus amp modeling, so it's only logical that your sound has changed. Adapt and overcome.

I don't know at what volume level you are playing, with your V30s. If you play at low volume, you won't hear a lot of bass from your guitar speakers.
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I play at normal volume when you would kick a drummers ass :) mabee a little bit lower :)
When i turn dynamic depth to 0 in Ares and compare this to Cygnus it´s the same lowend.
i´m mising that dynamic nevertheless :)
FractalAudio said:
Check your global EQ.
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Global EQ is always 0 ... :)
 
Leise said:
i´m mising that dynamic nevertheless :)


Global EQ is always 0 ... :)
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Well there ya go.

You're stuck on using Dynamic Depth. I don't know how to sugar coat this, but... It ain't coming back. Stay on 15.01, move up to Cygnus and adapt and adjust, or decide it's important enough for you to drop Fractal and move on.
 
FWIW I sometimes play here at home (low vol) thru 2 112 ported Mesa Cabs via Matrix p.a. with Cab modelling off and amp block set at ss pa + cab, and with mostly only authentic panel adjustments on mesa amp models. I've always had to crank the bass on amp block output eq to sound good to my ear - no different here in Cygnus except that overall, it sounds better.
 
You can try to recreate the dynamic aspect by assigning the envelope controller to the depth parameter. Probably take some trial and error to get the response how you want it, but it's worth a shot.
 
cardinal said:
Not entirely responsive to your question but somewhat germane:

These are rough clips of a Mesa Mark III and the Cygnus C+ Bright Deep model (powered by a Crest CA-9). Apogee condenser mic in front of a Bogner Uberkab.

The amp to my ear has a bit more low end, but it's not worlds apart, and I could add low end to the Fractal in a number of ways if I really cared (the amp model's bass knob is at 1 and depth is completely off, for example).






So I don't know if Cygnus is missing low end compared to Ares (haven't checked), but compared to an amp, it seems about right.
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I can hear a litle less lowend but the axe sound more acurate to me...can you give more lowend in the axe or are the settings the same?
 
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