Mic'ing a PA speaker (not my preference but...)

H

hayashi

Member
Whenever I play a gig, I plug my AX8 into a PA speaker behind me on the floor to carry the room if it's small, or to have a personal guitar monitor for bigger stages. Then I have the house plug an XLR cable into my AX8 for the FOH.

This past weekend I played a gig and they wanted to mic my PA speaker. They had a mic tape and wrapped around a small stand and were using that for all the different guitar cabs they had to mic on stage that night. I said all I need was a XLR cable - after some sourcing they were able to get me one, but it was rather short and in the way.

What are the downsides of mic'ing a PA speaker? Sound guy said it sounded good in the room and wanted to do that. How do you even mic one? I just happen to be using a QSC K12 that night, but have used my (now busted) CLR too.
 
Mic'ing a PA speaker really makes no sense. It's not the source of your tone, the AX8 is. This typically shows a sound engineer stuck in his ways, or some sort of gear limitation.

We mic guitar amps because they are the source of the tone. The speaker is the final part of that tone, so we mic it. The AX8 is creating the full tone, there is really no reason to mic the speaker.
 
I did it once because my level was too hot for the board, and I didn't have a inline pad xlr (carry 3 now), and it wasn't terrible to my surprise.
 
chris said:
Mic'ing a PA speaker really makes no sense. It's not the source of your tone, the AX8 is. This typically shows a sound engineer stuck in his ways, or some sort of gear limitation.

We mic guitar amps because they are the source of the tone. The speaker is the final part of that tone, so we mic it. The AX8 is creating the full tone, there is really no reason to mic the speaker.
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I agree. I think it was more like they didn't have another line around to run to my board. Since they already had a mic near the cabs ready to go, they just wanted to move the mic to my PA speaker and call it a day. I definitely don't want this, and they were able to eventually get me a cable.

But what if they couldn't and only had the mic? Where do you even place the mic on a PA speaker? I could probably convince a sound guy to unplug the XLR from the mic but some stages are very particular about how they want you to set up, and speed of band change over is key on a packed night.
 
hayashi said:
I agree. I think it was more like they didn't have another line around to run to my board. Since they already had a mic near the cabs ready to go, they just wanted to move the mic to my PA speaker and call it a day. I definitely don't want this, and they were able to eventually get me a cable.

But what if they couldn't and only had the mic? Where do you even place the mic on a PA speaker? I could probably convince a sound guy to unplug the XLR from the mic but some stages are very particular about how they want you to set up, and speed of band change over is key on a packed night.
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i've been in the exact situation. ultimately, if the sound guy wants to mic your PA speaker - even after you ask a few times for an XLR cable and try to explain - then you mic your PA speaker. try to put it between the tweeter and the woofer so you catch all frequencies. it's usually at THAT point that the sound guy starts to understand.

i told him to mic both parts of the speaker with the single mic so it catches the highs, and my guy then wanted to put TWO mics on the speaker... i'm like... aren't we working way too hard now? and then he handed me the XLR cable.

every situation is different, but ultimately the sound guy makes the decision, unless you want to hold up a show over your tone. in some cases, i definitely WOULD hold up the show until i get a dang direct line, but most of the time it's not worth it. mic the speaker and get out of there when it's done :D
 
While they're not looking, Secretly unplug the mic and connect the XLR to the Ax8. Solved.
 
aziz said:
While they're not looking, Secretly unplug the mic and connect the XLR to the Ax8. Solved.
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eh i disagree with this. though it's innocent in thought, it probably will cause popping on all the speakers and you'll DEFINITELY be on the sound guy's s**tlist.

if it's my stage and you start unplugging things without telling me, you're done. more highs in the vocals? yeah i'll put my hand near the knob and you'll say "oh that's much better." ;)
 
They'd have to be moving a live mic around in sound check while without muting the channel, very unlikely even for the most clueless soundman.

Bring your own di-box for this kind of emergencies, it drops the level from hot line level to mic level.
 
Maybe a stupid question but doesn't the ax8 has a -10db out setting? Wouldn't that be the same as using a inline pad?
 
cbellanga said:
Maybe a stupid question but doesn't the ax8 has a -10db out setting? Wouldn't that be the same as using a inline pad?
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Just Turn the output volume down, easy.
I've never needed a pad. I've found about 9:00 o'clock is similar to an sm57 in terms of output level. Shouldn't be an issue for most mixers
 
cbellanga said:
Maybe a stupid question but doesn't the ax8 has a -10db out setting? Wouldn't that be the same as using a inline pad?
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Just Turn the output volume down, easy.
I've never needed a pad. I've found about 9:00 o'clock is similar to an sm57 in terms of output level. Shouldn't be an issue for most mixers.

With that said, still don't unplug other people's gear without permission. Never piss off the sound man, ever.
 
cbellanga said:
ok then
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Sorry, didn't mean to be curt. But yeah, they usually don't "trust" the sound of modelers, they want what they know - mic the speaker.

You can also reduce the Gain in the global EQ. I need to do that for some "box mixers" that don't have any Gain settings, just a level knob.

It's true though that some sound guys think you can't run a channel with its Gain turned down or below 12:00. You just can't!!!! ;)
 
I route the FX Loop send from my Ax8 to my PA speaker and the XLR output to the FOH. Then I can turn up and down for them independent of my own onstage volume. I would never unplug a mic on stage unless it was muted on the board. Easy way to get on the sound guy's bad side. My band makes it a point to thank the sound guy first so the next time we come around we can have an easy time.

Also keep in mind sometimes my PA speaker is behind me upstage where the cabs are. Even if I were to unplug that XLR, sometimes it's not long enough to reach downstage to where I'm standing. Anyways I usually spend 2 minutes chatting with the sound guy so he knows what's up. Once I start playing, his reservations about tone usually disappear. But truth be told, sometimes the sound guy does what I want him to do, but doesn't do me any favors in the mix and levels. To him, it's "well it's digital so of course it sounds bad" and gives up on our set.

Anyways, between tweeter and the speaker makes sense! Thanks!
 
remember guys, a sound guy always knows more about everything. otherwise why would the bar manager move them directly from waiter to Sound Engineer?
 
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