MFC or RJM. Deciding on a Midi Foot Controller (Axe FX + External Pedals)

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imrecs

Inspired
I need to decide on a midi controller/pedal switching system, and am considering 2 options. The RJM PCB, or the MFC-101 w/ an RJM Mini Effects Gizmo. I would appreciate some advice to help figure out which is the better solution for my needs.

Each song in our set has it’s own preset, set to tempo. I use scenes to change sounds in each section of the song (intro scene 1, verse scene 2, etc.) The scenes mostly control delays, reverbs and modulation effects in the Axe.

All of my overdrive and fuzz pedals are external however, so I need a solution that will simultaneously turn on/off 5 loops. So Scene 1 might have delay 1 (fractal) + fuzz 1 (external), Scene 2 chorus 1 (fractal) + reverb 1 (fractal) + overdrive 1 (external), Scene 3 fuzz 1 (external) + overdrive 2 (external) + delay 2 (fractal), etc. etc. I need the external pedal looper to be fully customizable to map it to different scenes in different presets: i.e. scene 1 in preset/song 1 might have fuzz 1, where scene 1 in preset/song 2 might have overdrive 1 & 2. (I may have read that you can't do this with the RJM and MFC-101, as each external pedal loop would be mapped to the same scene in each preset...can someone clarify this?)

In addition, I need certain effects to be turned on/off within each scene as we often do improvisational sections where I can spontaneously go places and choose new sounds. So on Scene 5 for instance, I might want to switch on a phaser, or an octave down, or so. So I need to have some switches available in “stomp box mode” so that from any scene that I am on I can bring certain effects in and out, without having it stored in that scene…so If i click on a phaser during scene 3, then one click to scene 4, then back to scene 3, the phaser is no longer on.

Is this possible with the MFC-101 and an RJM Effects Gizmo?

Now the reason I am considering the RJM PCB instead is because I might want to expand to more than 5 external pedals. I actually own a Lehle D.Loop SGOS which I believe has midi control available so I might be able to use that to expand to 7 loops + a buffer at the end of the chain before hitting the Axe FX. I guess I could always get a second mini effects gizmo. Though The PCB does look really cool and has some features I like. The software for the PCB seems highly customizable so I think I can accomplish everything I will need with it, though since I haven’t used either, I am wondering the pros and cons of the MFC/Mini Effects Gizmo vs. The RJM PCB. Also looking at the Gig Rig G2 though I don’t believe it’s customizable enough in the midi realm.

Any advice? Thanks!
 
My advice would be to simplify. No one notices all that except you.

At one time, I ran a Rocktron switcher in the loop of my Axe but ultimately decided I was delusional to think anyone in my band cared, never mind audiences.

The more stuff there is the more the odds of a problem, the Edge has employees to fix such issues, you probably don't.
 
i respect your opinion, though i'm not looking to simplify. i'm looking for the best solution for my needs, which requires the use of a handful of external pedals.
 
I would be real careful what you expect out of this, because you are expecting allot. (not that it’s wrong, just saying)

The PCB looks like it might be for you but I am still not sure it can pull off everything you want, things that may make it a better choice than the Effects Gizmo Mini. There are a few more options with the audio loops the Gizmo does not have, and as you pointed out it has a pretty cool editor and you would be dealing with one unit not two(kind of simplifies things). Things that would concern me: The PCB does not have that many physical buttons, of course you can page it up and get more but I am wondering how many IA switches you are looking for? Paging through all of this stuff while playing can be allot of work in itself, and take away from your playing especially if there is a glitch.

The MFC/Effect Gizmo, like I said above the Gizmo has fewer functions for the audio loops, but since you would not be using anything else except drive pedals not really a concern. From what I read the Gizmo works on CC#. So no problem there the MFC can send out a burst of CC#’s when you change presets and take your pedals in and out per preset as you see fit. But you have mentioned about having your external pedals work with scenes and this is where it can start to get problematic. “Scenes” work with CC#’s to change the scene, so basically just another IA switch, sending out a CC message. The problem being you would have to send out a burst of CC messages to cover the scene change in the Axe Fx (that’s one) and five more to reflect what pedals you want to bring in and out with the Effect Gizmo. Those IA switches would have to be changes to “General use” IA switches, but from what I read you can only send out 2 CC messages when you will need 6 altogether. This type of programming is beyond the scoop of what I have done; not saying it can’t be done. BUT it can get very complexed fast and there is also different ways to approach the problems. Basically the way I see it (just referring to the external pedals) Changing presets, and getting the pedals to change there on/off states, no problem. Giving the pedals there own IA switches (which would also cover switching per preset) also no problem. Getting the pedals to change their states using “Scenes” a bit problematic, lots of careful programming.

John
 
BTW my concerns are the same for the PCB, everything very do-able, but when it comes to switching your pedals in scenes, might be tricky.

John
 
6L6C said:
BTW my concerns are the same for the PCB, everything very do-able, but when it comes to switching your pedals in scenes, might be tricky.

John
Click to expand...

I think what he means is the midi issue with scenes! I'm happy to be corrected but I don't believe switching scenes sends any midi messages to external devices, so punching in dirt pedals using an external looper device may not be possible.

I use the Axe FW18 in 4CM & honestly the dirt pedals in the Axe are all very useable. Try it out!
 
You can basicly use nullfilters hard balanced into left and right as "switches" going into an FXL block on the Axe grid. Then you can connect your external chain 1 to output 2 L and external chain 2 to output 2 R. You'll lose all stereo information when doing that, though. But most drives and fuzz pedals are mono anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

This is how I'd do it. Any midi board will do with this setup. No external channel switchers required; everything can be controlled directly through the Axe.

However, if you want to have more than two external pedal chains, then this will increase the complexity of your rig enormously, as now you need an external device for changing the routing on your analog chains. You should really, really reconsider if it's actually worth it to do that.

So I 100% support Luke here:
Simplify! Seriously, with all the great models in the Axe, there is no reason at all to run that many external drives and fuzzes. I'm perfectly sure you can replace some of your analog drives and fuzzes with models in the Axe. Use those that you really dig in the two external analog chains as described above and use the digital models for the others that aren't as important.


EDIT: Now that I think about it, when you use splitter cables, you can actually increase the flexibility in routing further by cross-connecting both external chains with each other, then using two volume blocks after the FXL block, selecting only the left or right channel to process further.
Example: you have 4 external pedals A,B,C,D. A and B are series-connected in chain 1. C and D are series-connected in chain 2.
The output signal from A also goes into D via a splitter cable. The output from C also goes into B via a splitter.
If you now have two volume blocks after the FXL, with "input select" set to left and right, you have various different possible settings for your external drives (all bypass states set to "mute"):
F1+V1 enabled: A and B are active.
F2+V1 enabled: C and B are active.
F1+V2 enabled: A and D are active.
F2+V2 enabled: C and D are active.
F1+F2 enabled; V1 enabled: A, C and B enabled.
F1+F2 enabled; V2 enabled: A, C and D enabled.
F1 enabled; V1+V2 enabled: A, B and D enabled.
F2 enabled; V1+V2 enabled: C, B and D enabled.
F1+F2 enabled; V1+V2 enabled: A, B, C and D enabled.

Here's a more usable example with 4 splitter cables:
Out 2 L goes via a splitter into A and B.
Out 2 R goes via a splitter into C and D.
A and D are combined to In 2 L via a splitter.
B and C are combined to In 2 R via a splitter.
When set up this way, these are the settings you get:
F1+V1: A is enabled
F1+V2: B is enabled
F2+V2: C is enabled
F2+V1: D is enabled
F1+V1+V2: A and B are enabled
F2+V1+V2: C and D are enabled
F1+F2+V1: A and D are enabled
F1+F2+V2: B and C are enabled
F1+F2+V1+V2: A, B, C and D are enabled

Since bypass states of blocks can be easily stored in scenes, all these routings can be baked into your scenes without further devices.
 

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You could try a musicom lab midi loop switcher. Stick all your pedals in there. Make a bunch of presets on it to cover every configuration you need. Send a single cc over on scene change to trigger whatever musicom preset you need.
 
Thanks for all the replies thus far.

i've basically solidified my rig, which is going to be using 7 fuzz/OD/boost pedals in front of the Fractal, and all my modulation/time based effects and amps/cabs in the fractal. I've decided to do this because of CPU, as well as my preference for external Stomp-box drive pedals. For my playing/programming style and ears, the Fractals mod and time based effects are superior to my analog/digital pedals, though there's something about the feel and sound of my externals OD and Fuzzes that I love so they're worth keeping in the rig.

I'm thinking it might make sense to have 2 midi controller boards. One that allows me to plug all 7 drive pedals in and have switches for any of the 7, as well as 3-4 switches that are combinations (i.e. fuzz + treble booster, or 2 ODs in series). So perhaps something that has at least 7 loops and 10 switches (switches that are like presets, so when i change switches it turns off the previous pedal that was on, and turns on another, or turns on a preset combination of pedals)....

Then a second Midi board that would allow me to control the modulation and time based effects in the Fractal. Mainly pitch, vibe, trem, 2 delays, 2 reverbs and 2 amps, with the ability to connect 2 expression pedals, control x and y states, the looper in the fractal, etc..

So I'm thinking something like the RJM PCB/Musicom/Gig Rig G2 + an MFC-101. The MFC can have 5 scenes for intro, verse, chorus, bridge, outro or something like that, that automatically turns on any combination of drive pedals and fractal blocks/states/etc. during the song, and then during the improvisational sections, I can have foot switches available for any and all pedals and fx on and off...

Would an MFC and one of the other switchers mentioned workout? Between the Gig Rig, RJM PCB and Musicom, might one be best for this application? Is there a simpler way to accomplish this? Perhaps I can just use the MFC and an RJM effects Gizmo to pull this off if I am more selective with the drive options per preset/song?
 
I ran a two MIDI controller rig for quite some time back in the 80s. It was actually very cool. I used one to switch channels on my Triaxis and the other to switch patches on my fx rig.
 
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