MFC-101 MIDI Foot Controller Product Info & Availability

[tgunn]

I was merely pointing out that 128 is not "just an arbitrary number that many controller manufacturers really like". No disrespect.

Likewise. I used the word 'arbitrary' (knowing the 7bit underpinnings) just to emphasize that the use of that number (128) is a choice on the part of controller designers - the number of presets in a controller is not limited by the MIDI spec.

It irks me every time I come across otherwise quite powerful controllers that are limited to 128 presets. Why should a user have to rotate patches in and out of a computer these days?

I misunderstood. Yes, I agree. Backwards compatibility is a bitch

 

[TBurst Std]

All I know is I'd rather be programming my MFC and playing than painting the kitchen.

 

[javajunkie]

It's not arbitrary. It's the limit of how high you can go with 7bits which is a limitation set by the MIDI standard.

FYI, the Gordius controllers make use of dynamic memory allocation. Memory is divided among presets (amount of presets, PC/CCs per preset), banks, songs.
So innovaton is possible.

In 1994, the Digitech PMC10 foot controller supported 500 presets and 100 banks. The Gordius controllers are innovative, but not in that particular regard.

same with the liquid foot

 

[TBurst Std]

Is this correct , the MFC can have a song list, but the presets that could be chosen to do this are limited to one physical AXE FX bank. IE. A B C

I don't have mine with me now to confirm but, I believe you can use the Axe-Fx Preset Transmit Map shown on page 46 of the manual.

It appears so. Curious, wouls someone be kind enough to try building a single song bank using a preset from AXE bank A, one from AXE bank B and one from AXE bank C.
Unit would be in AXE-FX mode, using the AXE defined IAs.

 

[javajunkie]

[quote="TBurst Std":33f4jt5v]Is this correct , the MFC can have a song list, but the presets that could be chosen to do this are limited to one physical AXE FX bank. IE. A B C

I don't have mine with me now to confirm but, I believe you can use the Axe-Fx Preset Transmit Map shown on page 46 of the manual.

It appears so. Curious, wouls someone be kind enough to try building a single song bank using a preset from AXE bank A, one from AXE bank B and one from AXE bank C.
Unit would be in AXE-FX mode, using the AXE defined IAs.[/quote:33f4jt5v]

I let a friend borrow mine. He doesn't want to give it back now :lol:
I'll get it back tomorrow and try

 

[GM Arts]

If my understanding of the MFC hierarchy is correct, I don't see how 128 MFC presets is a serious limitation, unless someone really needs access to more than 128 different AxeFX patches in a session. And if you really need more than that, questions will be asked :lol:

No guarantees I have this right, but the way I interpret the manual is ...

There are 128 MFC presets, each one can recall any AxeFX patch. More than one MFC preset can recall the same AxeFX patch if you wish. Only one of the three AxeFX banks can be accessed at a time.

You can create up to 100 songs, each of which can include up to 15 of the 128 available MFC presets. You can create up to 10 sets, each of which can include up to 50 songs.

The logical approach would probably be to use each MFC preset for a unique AxeFX patch so that all 128 AxeFX patches are available. So the way I see it ...

In SET MODE: There are up to 7500 presets available (10 sets x 50 songs x 15 presets = 7500)
In SONG MODE: Up to 1500 presets are available (100 songs x 15 presets = 1500)
In BANK MODE: Up to all 128 presets in the current bank are available

 

[TBurst Std]

I let a friend borrow mine. He doesn't want to give it back now :lol:
I'll get it back tomorrow and try

Many thanks! Next time you want to lend it to someone, PM me

 

[TBurst Std]

Only one of the three AxeFX banks can be accessed at a time.

That is my Q. My song list may extend across more than one bank, or two. While the LFP can not hold all 3 AXE banks, it can hold 2+. GEtting my patches as well as customized factory ones into 2 banks takes a little thought.
I just need to have patches I want on those 2 banks currently, then "song them". I am curious if I will need to make sure I have all my desired patches ALWAYS located in the same AXE bank. Would require a little more planning on what I am using versus what I don't, versus what I don't want. Just trying to plan ahead and set my expectations correctly

 

[TBurst Std]

[quote="GM Arts":3qrhumpr] Only one of the three AxeFX banks can be accessed at a time.

That is my Q. My song list may extend across more than one bank, or two. While the LFP can not hold all 3 AXE banks, it can hold 2+. GEtting my patches as well as customized factory ones into 2 banks takes a little thought.
I just need to have patches I want on those 2 banks currently, then "song them". I am curious if I will need to make sure I have all my desired patches ALWAYS located in the same AXE bank. Would require a little more planning on what I am using versus what I don't, versus what I don't want. Just trying to plan ahead and set my expectations correctly[/quote:3qrhumpr]
Theres a difference between 20 need to have patches, and say a 150 I like, and will everntually get to patches across 2 banks versus 1.

PS: Yes I know I can always reload the factory items, but then again I have to take into account where I moved others. Nothing worse than doing a bank reload, and missing a needed patch location, and over-riding it (which I have dome as I am a midiot) LOL.
Worst when it is the day before a gig. PW or otherwise.

 

[sean.e]

In SET MODE: There are up to 7500 presets available (10 sets x 50 songs x 15 presets = 7500)
In SONG MODE: Up to 1500 presets are available (100 songs x 15 presets = 1500)
In BANK MODE: Up to all 128 presets in the current bank are available

That's some funny math! Using set or song mode doesn't give you more than the 128 internal presets - you re-use the same 128 presets in the 7500 (or 1500 depending upon mode) possible positions.

 

[GM Arts]

[quote="GM Arts":1ertxtg1]In SET MODE: There are up to 7500 presets available (10 sets x 50 songs x 15 presets = 7500)
In SONG MODE: Up to 1500 presets are available (100 songs x 15 presets = 1500)
In BANK MODE: Up to all 128 presets in the current bank are available

That's some funny math! Using set or song mode doesn't give you more than the 128 internal presets - you re-use the same 128 presets in the 7500 (or 1500 depending upon mode) possible positions.[/quote:1ertxtg1]
Well, not a poor attampt at humour really, but as I said in my post as well as in the user manual, only the 128 AxeFX patches are available from any single selected bank. And yes, you're right - the 128 MFC presets, which I suggest should be mapped uniquely to all 128 AxeFX patches, are available in song and set lists which can total up to 7500 presets (from the 128) in set mode.

Of course, even the humble AxeFX is limited to a mere 384 patches. That's probably not enough for someone either :lol:

 

[sean.e]

Of course, even the humble AxeFX is limited to a mere 384 patches. That's probably not enough for someone either :lol:

True! OTOH, it's a shame the MFC can't address every one of the patches that ARE available on the AxeFx without backing up and restoring its memory from a computer (3 different setups that need to backed up and then restored as needed).

 

[GM Arts]

[quote="GM Arts":1efhg8qr]Of course, even the humble AxeFX is limited to a mere 384 patches. That's probably not enough for someone either :lol:

True! OTOH, it's a shame the MFC can't address every one of the patches that ARE available on the AxeFx without backing up and restoring its memory from a computer (3 different setups that need to backed up and then restored as needed).[/quote:1efhg8qr]
Yes, it could be done by allowing a MSB and optionally an LSB bank selection (I guess default would be the global selection) with the PC number, even from the existing available 128 presets.

For me, the only small piece missing is PC back functionality (optionally with IA back as well). Just the usual "back to previous patch" option, so only the last patch (and changed IA sattes) needs to be held in memory. Maybe if enabled, it works from the EDIT footswitch, and you hold EDIT down for 2 seconds for edit functions (hint, hint )

 

[yek]

If my understanding of the MFC hierarchy is correct, I don't see how 128 MFC presets is a serious limitation, unless someone really needs access to more than 128 different AxeFX patches in a session. And if you really need more than that, questions will be asked :lol:

No guarantees I have this right, but the way I interpret the manual is ...

There are 128 MFC presets, each one can recall any AxeFX patch. More than one MFC preset can recall the same AxeFX patch if you wish. Only one of the three AxeFX banks can be accessed at a time.

You can create up to 100 songs, each of which can include up to 15 of the 128 available MFC presets. You can create up to 10 sets, each of which can include up to 50 songs.

The logical approach would probably be to use each MFC preset for a unique AxeFX patch so that all 128 AxeFX patches are available. So the way I see it ...

In SET MODE: There are up to 7500 presets available (10 sets x 50 songs x 15 presets = 7500)
In SONG MODE: Up to 1500 presets are available (100 songs x 15 presets = 1500)
In BANK MODE: Up to all 128 presets in the current bank are available

Hi GM, that is not how it works for everyone.
Although I cannot it explain better than JJ already did:

I have about 50 Axe-Fx presets (such as Fender Brownface, Shiva, Vox, with all effects bypassed, and things such as Hammond B3, Tape Delay, E-Bow etc.) that I need to access from the controller. That's within the MFC-limit of 128 so there's no problem, yet.

Like JJ, I also use want to save and recall variations of an Axe-Fx preset, such as:
1. Fender Brownface but now with delay, reverb, detune and Tape Drive enabled
2. Fender Brownface with lead boost, delay2, Univibe and Fulldrive
3. etc.
It's handt to do this using MFC presets.
In the end there may be 10 or more variations of the Fender preset, divided over MFC presets. And that's just the Fender. I have about 10 favorite amp sims. Do the math.... Why? Because of the ease of preset switching instead of tap dancing IA switches.

I play in two bands, each band plays about 40 songs. 80 songs, max 4 MFC presets per song.

So it's not the case of matching MFCs to AXE-Fx presets. There's more to it.

P.S. Now, if a future fimware Axe-Fx upgrade would allow us switch effects only, while holding onto the already active amp+cab, Or alternatively: introduce the ability to switch just the amp+cab in the active preset while maintaining all active effect blocks .... that would change everything. ;-)

 

[sean.e]

[quote="sean.e":83b1kgre]True! OTOH, it's a shame the MFC can't address every one of the patches that ARE available on the AxeFx without backing up and restoring its memory from a computer (3 different setups that need to backed up and then restored as needed).

Yes, it could be done by allowing a MSB and optionally an LSB bank selection (I guess default would be the global selection) with the PC number, even from the existing available 128 presets.[/quote:83b1kgre]

I wasn't clear. Of course any MFC patch can singly address any Axe-Fx patch. What I meant was that the MFC can not have a unique patch for every single Axe-Fx patch.

 

[javajunkie]

If my understanding of the MFC hierarchy is correct, I don't see how 128 MFC presets is a serious limitation, unless someone really needs access to more than 128 different AxeFX patches in a session. And if you really need more than that, questions will be asked :lol:

No guarantees I have this right, but the way I interpret the manual is ...

There are 128 MFC presets, each one can recall any AxeFX patch. More than one MFC preset can recall the same AxeFX patch if you wish. Only one of the three AxeFX banks can be accessed at a time.

You can create up to 100 songs, each of which can include up to 15 of the 128 available MFC presets. You can create up to 10 sets, each of which can include up to 50 songs.

The logical approach would probably be to use each MFC preset for a unique AxeFX patch so that all 128 AxeFX patches are available. So the way I see it ...

In SET MODE: There are up to 7500 presets available (10 sets x 50 songs x 15 presets = 7500)
In SONG MODE: Up to 1500 presets are available (100 songs x 15 presets = 1500)
In BANK MODE: Up to all 128 presets in the current bank are available

Serious limitation in a session no.
However, I use (not that I can't change my workflow)
1 song / real song
4 mfc presets pointing at a single (usually) Axe-fx preset
each preset within the song turns effects on/off for intro,verse,chorus, bridge/solo

That means I have 128/4 songs. I don't play more than 32 songs in a session, but I don't want to be reprogramming my axe-fx are writing over stuff I will use again after 32 songs. Especially since there is no way to save individual songs and load for later use. A editor or patch organizer would be helpul in this regard. Then the only issue is if we had to change a song a the last minute that is not on the current 32 songs I have in my mfc. I can easily work around that.

BTW you are NOT limited by one bank. You can map the 128 presets on the MFC to any axefx preset (the default is to use bank A,B, or C). I don't have my mfc right now but I believe that is the way it works.

 

[GM Arts]

Thanks all, I understand - you're looking for additional MFC presets to make variations to existsing AxeFX patches. And I agree it's a good approach to avoid duplicating AxeFX patches and trying to keep changes synchronised.

I was mainly trying to be clear about what (I think) the MFC has, which is up to one preset for every one of the 128 AxeFX patches, as saved. Not sure if all folks were clear these presets can be assembled into much longer lists and groups of lists. But maybe no-one was in doubt after all

 

[yek]

you're looking for additional MFC presets to make variations to existing AxeFX patches

You just summarized it, far better than my attempt. :mrgreen:

 

[jhuggins]

is this a hardware limitation or is it possible for more presets to become available (and song banks) with a future firmware update.

 

[quark]

This is from the MFC-101 manual:

The Axe-Fx Default Bank setting remaps default MFC-101 presets to Axe-Fx banks A, B or C.
? Axe-Fx Preset Transmit Map allows you to load any Axe-Fx preset from any MFC-101 preset.

So it would seem to me that if it were possible to send a Midi Command from the MFC to itself that reset it's Default Bank Setting, then all 384 Axe presets would be available from the MFC with the limitation that MFC Preset 000 could be Axe Preset 000, or 128, or 256 depending upon the current status of the Default Bank setting.

Anyone else read it like this or think this is a workable solution for getting at all 384 Axe Presets?