Matrix XT-800 Review, and up against a VHT 2:50:2

Paul,

If you can, just for variety of tones, make a high-gain (mid-scooped) type tone with say the Engl Powerball sim for a comparison between the two power amps? Be sure to throw in some palm-muting chords to see how they sound from a percussive-rhythm standpoint. I appreciate all you've done in your review, man!
 
Paul, it sounds like your very impressed with the Matrix and based on your findings using the VHT as a reference it should be a big hit with Axe users running ether cab or FR. As good as it might be from a price standpoint it sounds like it going to be hard on the wallet for the US market.
 
I recently got a Carvin DCM1540L (2 actually) and an old Carvin FET 1000 mosfet power amp. I compared stock patch 80 on the ultra with the cab sims off. The mosfet amp sounded better to me. More tube-like - probably because the amp was designed to mimic a tube amp. Anyway it seemed to attenuate some of the digital high-end that I could hear with the DCM. So I put a PEQ at the end and blocked the high end in the 6-7k range and tweaked the presence a tad and the newer DCM then sounded more like what I was hearing through the FET amp.
 
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Sixstring said:
Paul, it sounds like your very impressed with the Matrix and based on your findings using the VHT as a reference it should be a big hit with Axe users running ether cab or FR. As good as it might be from a price standpoint it sounds like it going to be hard on the wallet for the US market.
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Yeh, it may get pricey for the US guys. Unfortunately the £ is still in a hole, and the $ is quite strong. Cost is £390 Stirling plus Shipping, which is around $670. Unforunately you get hit with out 20% VAT tax as far as I know (which given your not in this country sucks), and due to out government we do tend to pay more for equipment that you guys. Just look at the xe-FX. Arond £1850 for an ultra here, which equates to $2880.
 
OK, another two clips. the first one is a Powerball sim, with mids down at 3.5, bass and trebble up a bit as is the prescence. thats it, nothing else. Its not my style so the tone may be meh - and my playing will be awfull. ive tried to palm mute as requested, but its not quick or tight. Hope you get what you wanted from it.

for both the clips the VHTs Prescence has been set as 9-10O'Clock as per the post stating this is a typical flat response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8aEQV8yhUw


the second clip is a Blues clip. Ive got reverb on and played to a backing track. you get how the two amps sit in the mix a little (not really mixed, just played to). the track keeps playing and i switch between the Matrix and the VHT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhDKKNrAcvU
 
paulmapp8306 said:
OK, another two clips. the first one is a Powerball sim, with mids down at 3.5, bass and trebble up a bit as is the prescence. thats it, nothing else. Its not my style so the tone may be meh - and my playing will be awfull. ive tried to palm mute as requested, but its not quick or tight. Hope you get what you wanted from it.
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Paul,

Thank you for doing the high gain comparison for us. Nevermind the playing, you get the point across. Sounds extremely close between the two!
 
Paul and or Dada,

Sounds like the Matrix will work in a guitar amp context, but do you forsee any issues using it with a backing track running through it at the same time? In other words, the Axe-Fx, a MP3 player, and a small mixer all running into the Matrix and then into FRFR speakers? Just asking because of the power amp being MOSFET and wondering if it will do weird things to a backing track or music.

Thanks!
 
no - The amp is actually build as a PA amp. The most use its getting is with DJs and some house installations. Its been put up against some Lab Gruppens, and some Crowns costing upwards of £1k - and got the better of them.

Actually, a Class A/B Mosfet amp is pretty much the best you can get for audio of any kind. The main problem with these designs is heat - which Matrix has sorted. the rail voltage seperation is upwards of 200v, and the rise time is greater than 0.65v per millisecond. Just a few reasons why it sound so dynamic :)
 
mhenson42 said:
I recently got a Carvin DCM1540L (2 actually) and an old Carvin FET 1000 mosfet power amp. I compared stock patch 80 on the ultra with the cab sims off. The mosfet amp sounded better to me. More tube-like - probably because the amp was designed to mimic a tube amp. Anyway it seemed to attenuate some of the digital high-end that I could hear with the DCM. So I put a PEQ at the end and blocked the high end in the 6-7k range and tweaked the presence a tad and the newer DCM then sounded more like what I was hearing through the FET amp.
Click to expand...

Yes, EQ is an awesome tool. I love that the Axe has so much EQ available.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
OK, another two clips. the first one is a Powerball sim, with mids down at 3.5, bass and trebble up a bit as is the prescence. thats it, nothing else. Its not my style so the tone may be meh - and my playing will be awfull. ive tried to palm mute as requested, but its not quick or tight. Hope you get what you wanted from it.

for both the clips the VHTs Prescence has been set as 9-10O'Clock as per the post stating this is a typical flat response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8aEQV8yhUw


the second clip is a Blues clip. Ive got reverb on and played to a backing track. you get how the two amps sit in the mix a little (not really mixed, just played to). the track keeps playing and i switch between the Matrix and the VHT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhDKKNrAcvU
Click to expand...

The VHT sounds a little thicker to me. I guess you have the power amp sims on for both. I tended to prefer the tube power amps with the power amp sims off.
 
i had a long chat yesterday with the designer of the Matrix. We were discussing the volume pot issue i raised in my first post. The upshot is that they had though about bracing, but its a compromise. In the current design there is some give, and a calculated gap between the shaft the the facia plate. the idea being that if the knobs take a sideways knock, they will be fine. If they brace them as I suggested a sideways knock would more than likely snap the shaft as its too ridgid.

There is tripple redundance on the tracks, so if the knob goes get a head on strike and a solder joint cracks, the knob should still work. He did say it was one way or the other not both - and from experience there is more damage from side strikes than head on ones.

Once loaded in a rack the chances of a head on strike strong enough to damage the solder joint/PCB is very slim, a side strike isnt so slim. He went on to say that if an amp was dropped or the knob was damaged in another way while taking the amp from its box, or loading it in a rack then they would just replace the knob for the customer no problem.

that clears that one up then.
 
Umm.

Tried both amps out in a rehersal room at real loud levels. it now gets interesting. At low levels they sound the same. Upping the levels and the VHT had a little more beef. No issue, a slight adjustment if the input signal sorted that out. this was a Dr Z clean ant Tele. boosting the amp, and the Matrix felt flat compared to the VHT. the volume was boosted on the VHT, but not so much on the matrix. There was more body about the VHT.

thing is, a quick EQ change, and pushing up the signal again once again got the two very very close. Take the boost off and there still very close. Change patches as the VHt was better again - this time Boogoe Mk2 and a Strat. Another quick EQ change and signal level change and the amps were on par again.

Now i THINK its to do with the input signal levels. That is because there different you need to give the Matrix an offset to match the VHT. This is fine, until the volume goes up (that is the output from the Axe, not the Amps level) when, as a % the VHTs signal goes up more than the Matrix's because of the diffrences in th input sensetivity. Rematch the signals and there on par again. The same goes for the boost. its boosting the VHt more than the Matrix. Changing patches means different EQs. the Mk2 being more mid heavey than the dr Z. This pushes up the signal in thoses freqs, and again the VHT get a bigger 5 increase.

Now, its no surprise that the VHt sounded better initially in all cases, as the patches were designed using the VHT. i highly susspect that if I re-tweeked the patches individually rather than trying broad brush, generic EQ changes via the global out, and changed the boosts to reflect how they react with the Matrix - then the Matrix would sound best.

thing is, i cant do that and still compare the amps because they changes will effect both. I suppose i could do that and use the Matrix as the "master" and tweek the VHt to sound like it.

it has confused me because at present the VHT just sounds better every time I change patches or adjust the gain level within a patch. however, as i can make the Matrix sound the same at pretty much all volume levels and on all patches I can convince myself the Matrix is a keeper. Ill always wonder though if i let the VHT go if i made the right choice.

i dont have forever. i can have 2-3 weeks with the Matrix but have a buyer for the VHT if I sell. He needs it by 8th Feb though which means realistically another week at most - and finding time around the wife and kids is proving, shall we say - difficult.

If id paid for the Matrix, i could keep both as Im sure Id find another buyer for the VHt (though in the current climate you never know), but I havent. Basically either the VHT goes to pay for the Matrix (plus a fair amount left over) OR, the matrix goes back and I dont spend a penny.

my mind is spinning just a little. There are two more forumites trying the XT800 today/tomorrow. One has a peavey 60/60 and has been using a Stewart Audio as well, the other uses the same VHt as I do. im guessing their thoughts may well help one way or the other. it doesnt help that I am indecisive by nature :(
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Umm.

Tried both amps out in a rehersal room at real loud levels. it now gets interesting. At low levels they sound the same. Upping the levels and the VHT had a little more beef. No issue, a slight adjustment if the input signal sorted that out. this was a Dr Z clean ant Tele. boosting the amp, and the Matrix felt flat compared to the VHT. the volume was boosted on the VHT, but not so much on the matrix. There was more body about the VHT.

thing is, a quick EQ change, and pushing up the signal again once again got the two very very close. Take the boost off and there still very close. Change patches as the VHt was better again - this time Boogoe Mk2 and a Strat. Another quick EQ change and signal level change and the amps were on par again.

Now i THINK its to do with the input signal levels. That is because there different you need to give the Matrix an offset to match the VHT. This is fine, until the volume goes up (that is the output from the Axe, not the Amps level) when, as a % the VHTs signal goes up more than the Matrix's because of the diffrences in th input sensetivity. Rematch the signals and there on par again. The same goes for the boost. its boosting the VHt more than the Matrix. Changing patches means different EQs. the Mk2 being more mid heavey than the dr Z. This pushes up the signal in thoses freqs, and again the VHT get a bigger 5 increase.

Now, its no surprise that the VHt sounded better initially in all cases, as the patches were designed using the VHT. i highly susspect that if I re-tweeked the patches individually rather than trying broad brush, generic EQ changes via the global out, and changed the boosts to reflect how they react with the Matrix - then the Matrix would sound best.

thing is, i cant do that and still compare the amps because they changes will effect both. I suppose i could do that and use the Matrix as the "master" and tweek the VHt to sound like it.

it has confused me because at present the VHT just sounds better every time I change patches or adjust the gain level within a patch. however, as i can make the Matrix sound the same at pretty much all volume levels and on all patches I can convince myself the Matrix is a keeper. Ill always wonder though if i let the VHT go if i made the right choice.

i dont have forever. i can have 2-3 weeks with the Matrix but have a buyer for the VHT if I sell. He needs it by 8th Feb though which means realistically another week at most - and finding time around the wife and kids is proving, shall we say - difficult.

If id paid for the Matrix, i could keep both as Im sure Id find another buyer for the VHt (though in the current climate you never know), but I havent. Basically either the VHT goes to pay for the Matrix (plus a fair amount left over) OR, the matrix goes back and I dont spend a penny.

my mind is spinning just a little. There are two more forumites trying the XT800 today/tomorrow. One has a peavey 60/60 and has been using a Stewart Audio as well, the other uses the same VHt as I do. im guessing their thoughts may well help one way or the other. it doesnt help that I am indecisive by nature :(
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Just pure speculation, but I would expect that the VHT would have more of a variable reaction to the input signal being that it's a tube amp, and the tubes are reacting differently based on what type of signal is being fed to them.

With that point in mind, is the issue your facing with the VHT always sounding better initially be because your patches were all created using the VHT, and that your patches are taylored to the reaction that the VHT (tubes) have to the different input signals?

Said another way...is the problem the Matrix or is it that your patches were all created on the VHT which is not consistent (based on the signal being fed)?

I could be completely off base....but that is what my intial thought would be if I was in your shoes.
Maybe Jay Mitchell will jump in on this one and give an explanation based on some facts....
 
My exact thoughts. The VHT has a different input sensitivity, and different charicaturistics that the Matrix, and the Patches were all designed on the VHT. theglobal gain to the feed going to the Matrix tells me in my head the Matrix is just fine. Add to that when I reduced the gain to the VHt - just to see and just by 1/2 db- the Matrix sounded better than the VHt inmost cases.

i think it will just be a case of re-tweeking my patches to the Matrix.

My heart of course says differnt.
 
Tough spot to be in....especially since you can't keep both.
I've had that same feeling when I tried a K12, and I was comparing it to the HPR122i that I already owned.
I really wanted to like the K12...but it just didn't rub me the same way the HPR did (the warmth, the girth, what ever the factor is)....so I returned the K12.

I can speak from the outside looking in and say...if I was trying to make that same decision, it would be a matter of do the size/weight of the Matrix make it attractive enough to be the tie breaker.
If you gig out a couple nights a week, then I would be keeping the Matrix....because the convenience of the small form factor is attractive. Also, with the Matrix there is no chance of blowing a tube at a gig. Solid State reliability is an excellent plus side (again, if you're gigging a decent amount).
If this is for an 'at home' amp....then it's a much tougher decision.
 
looks like you know in reality the VHT sounds better. if weight isn't an issue and you're not lugging your equipment around a lot i would keep the VHT. you might want to try them both in a band situation and see how they compare. i'm going to guess if you did that the choice would be even more clear which one to keep ;)
 
paulmapp8306 said:
There are two more forumites trying the XT800 today/tomorrow... the other uses the same VHt as I do. im guessing their thoughts may well help one way or the other. it doesnt help that I am indecisive by nature :(
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Hi Paul,

I still haven't had a chance to test the XT800.
I should be doing it Monday or Tuesday.
Will let you know once I do.

This is an interesting development though- so thanks for your candour.
I really was hoping to cut down the weight of my rig but if the XT800 doesn't cut it for me then I will probably just split the rig up into a 4u rack for my Axe and Echoplex and then have the VHT in a separate 2u rack.
Will be in touch.

Jim
 
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jb70 said:
looks like you know in reality the VHT sounds better. if weight isn't an issue and you're not lugging your equipment around a lot i would keep the VHT. you might want to try them both in a band situation and see how they compare. i'm going to guess if you did that the choice would be even more clear which one to keep ;)
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Now you see, I had more time at volume today. Ive got the two fairly matches at volume. In fact the Matrix sounded fuller for cleans and high gain. the VHT sounded a little more cutting with crunch tones. TBH though there wasnt much in it. Id be quite happy to gig with either TBH, and although I spend a lot of time at home, so the weight isnt as big a deal as it could be - the VHT fans are noisey so playing quieter at home does incur some background noise.

My only real concern now is how the Matrix cuts through a real band. Now, ive played to backing tracks fairly loudly - but its not been against a drummer or 2nd guitarist in the flesh. Unfortunately this isnt something Im going to be able to do before I really need to make a descision. its where John and James need to come in I think.

Interestingly though, Ive looked at my finances and I could just about afford to keep both, though the car needs MOTing next month, and if there are any shocks I would need to move one. However, I have an offer on the VHT, and its more than I paid for it so IF the Matrix IS as good enough (once I get James and Johns feedback) can I really turn that down?
 
paulmapp8306 said:
However, I have an offer on the VHT, and its more than I paid for it so IF the Matrix IS as good enough (once I get James and Johns feedback) can I really turn that down?
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In my book thats a no brainer, when you can make money on a pice of music gear I say do it. If the Matrix is sounding better than the Art and just as good as the VHT without having the issues of tube maintenance and weight I wouldn't hesitate to sell it but thats me. I may have to bite the bullet and start saving for a Matrix on top of another Axe and MFC...:?
 
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