Matrix alternatives?

B

brain21

Inspired
SO I am thinking of going the cab/power amp route. I am looking at options. I would likely be running a Thiele with a 200 watt, 8ohm EVM-12L (in the AxeFx, 90% of my cab selections are the EVM12L anyway :) ).

So the Matrix GT800 is too expensive for me at around $700 plus S/H.

I can't find a Matrix XT amp, which I believe is a bit cheaper (though I can't even seem to find a price on it).

So my needs are
- a lightweight power amp.
- 1U or 2U.
- Under $400
- the less coloration, obviously, the better
- has to work well with a 200 watt, 8Ohm EVM-12L

What are my options guys, and what are your opinions?

Here is my list so far:

Rocktron Velocity 300
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150 watt/channel @ 4Ohm
75 Watt/channel @ 8ohm
300 watts/bridged @ 8Ohm
1U
18.7 Lbs
$370 new
$160 used
Notes: Heavy, Would need to buy a 2nd for a second cab (making total weight ~40LBS). Does get excellent AxeFx reviews.


Rocktron Velocity 250
========================
125 watts per channel @ 4ohms (both channels driven)
90 watts per channel @ 8ohms (both channels driven)
50 watts per channel @ 16ohms (both channels driven)
250 watts bridged @ 8ohms
170 watts bridged @ 16ohms
2U
$???
??LBS



Crown XLS 1000 DriveCore
=====================
550 watts per channel @ 2 Ohms
350 Watts per channel @ 4 Ohms
215 watts per channel @ 8 Ohms
700 watts bridged @ 8ohms
1100 watts bridged @ 4 ohms
2U
11 LBS
$300 new
$200-250 used
NOTES: reviews say very neutral/transparent, good class D amps, no need to buy a 2nd one for a 2nd cab, keeps rig even lighter (1/4 the equiv Roctron rig weight), not geared specifically towards guitar (is this necessarily bad?), Cliff stated a long time ago (old forum) that he thought that the Crown Class D power amps were actually pretty good (though his comment was in general, not on this specific amp). (2nd to last post)==> http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewtopic.php?t=1415&highlight=powerblock&mforum=axefx


American Audio VLP 300
======================
150 watts per channel @ 4 ohms
100 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
300 watts bridged @ 8 ohms
1U
24 Lbs
$150-$180 new
Cheap, but heavy. I can get a Velocity 300 used for the price of this new, but that may or may not nexessarily be a good thing.


Carvin DCM200-L
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100 watts per channel @ 4 ohms
60 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
200 watts bridged at 8 ohms
1U
4LBS
$379 new, but sometimes on sale for $239
NOTES: Super lightweight. Would need a 2nd one to power a 2nd cab. Some complain about the tone it imparts, some like it.


ART SLA-2
===========
280 watts per channel @ 4 ohms
200 watts per channel @ 8 ohms
560 watts bridged @ 8 ohms
1U
19.8-23Lbs (depending on who you believe)
$300 new
$200 used
Notes: a lot of people seem to like the Velocity better than this and it can be had cheaper. Would NOT need a 2nd one for a 2nd cab, so cuts the weight vs the velocity in half in a 2 cab setup.

Digitech G300
===============
2U
$200 used - no idea on weight, power, etc.

I heard good things from a couple of people using Crate Powerblock amps, running the AxeFx into the FX return, thereby using only the power section. Anyone tried this? Opinions? This looks like a real attractive, versatile solution if it is any good. It would be 150W mono... Upon further reading (Cliff's experience), it appears that the Class D amps in the power block are notoriously unreliable...

Right now I am heavily leaning towards the Crown XLS, Rocktron Velocity 300 (despite mixed reviews on overheating and tone) and the SLA2. To tell the truth, I am really surprised that the Rocktron is HALF its original price used. Any clues as to why? All things being Equal, the SLA-2 and Crown provide enough power that I wouldn't need to buy another one should I decide to add a 2nd cab. All things being equal the Crown weighs a lot less. SO thats where reliability and tone come in......

Thanks guys!
 
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I bought a brand new Crown XLS1500 for 350$ , very happy with it , lots à balls et very neutral amp , I run it with a 4X12 V30
 
Stay away from the American Audio stuff... that was my very first power amp with the Ultra... it farted like crazy, and sound like sounded like ass... and the clip lights were always on... seems like the Velocity 300 is one of the more liked items on this board along with the Atomic 50/50 and Matrix.
 
not sure about this comment "Would need to buy a 2nd for a second cab"; are you just going by matching wattages between the amps and the EVM12L? So what if the EVM can handle 200... you don't need to give it that? Every amp you mentioned can be run in stereo. Even the Rocktron 300 using both sides @8ohms / 75 watts into the EV which I believe is a pretty efficient speaker (100dB?). That would be pretty f***ing loud imho. Pushing 2 cabs would be very loud imho. FWIW I think your used estimate for the V300 is quite low. I've seen them for ~$250 used, not $175.
 
Gasp100 said:
not sure about this comment "Would need to buy a 2nd for a second cab"; are you just going by matching wattages between the amps and the EVM12L? So what if the EVM can handle 200... you don't need to give it that? Every amp you mentioned can be run in stereo. Even the Rocktron 300 using both sides @8ohms / 75 watts into the EV which I believe is a pretty efficient speaker (100dB?). That would be pretty f***ing loud imho. Pushing 2 cabs would be very loud imho. FWIW I think your used estimate for the V300 is quite low. I've seen them for ~$250 used, not $175.
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You know, you bring up a good point. Some speakers don't sound as good unless they are really pushed, but the EVM-12L is not one of those speakers. I honestly don't know why I didn't think of that.... D'oh!

I did some searching on places like eBay completed, craigslist, and advertised used prices on places like Guitar Center, and found quite a few used Velocity 300s in the $150-$170 range. Not a lot, but a few. The pics were of the 1U Velocities. Of course it COULD be the case that the ones for sale are the older 2U heavier ones and they just grabbed whatever pic they found in a google image search... But the more I read about those Velocities going into "Protection mode" the more it scares me. I need to read more (or was hoping folks could comment here) if that only really happens under certain circumstances (really pushing the amp, or pushing it, but only in Bridged mode, etc., etc.).
 
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Crate Power Block, not horrible but not my choice (near the bottom of the barrel)
SLA-2 Allot of people likes these and I don’t know why, to me dark and dull. It might be allot of people are running them with real cabs, where I had run mine with FRFR cabs. Don’t know buts that’s my experience.
DCM200L as you can see in my signature I’m using one, pretty happy with it out of everything I have tried (tonally) Problem not enough power if you were to consider a Carvin I would go with the DCM1540L its big brother. BTW the 1540 is a class AB like the 200 some of the DCM amps are not AB.

I am waiting on a Matrix GT800FX should have it soon, if I did not go that route I would go with the DCM1540L. Trying the Matrix pretty much on faith, since our brothers in the UK seem to really love this amp and the handful of guys in the states that have them. But I have not really seen any videos that really do it for me, pretty good but not great, that’s where the faith part is coming in on this purchase. My Carvin can easily do just as good if not better that what I have seen on YouTube. There again compressed to get on YouTube and god knows what mic it was recorded with.

At the NY Amp Show a couple of months ago Cliff was using a Crown of some sort and everything sounded real good.
 
Thanks for the info. I looked, the 1540L seems like a lot more power than I need. However the DCM1000L looks good. 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Probably more than I'll ever need. On sale for $319, and only 10Lbs. One complaint I've heard about the Atomics was that the active wedges were just not loud enough. I figured the 50w amp that comes in the powered version was properly matched, so I assume that you were running the DCM200L into that (passive, but @ 50 watts I mean, so using the 60 watt/chan mode of the DCM). Maybe the volume issue is just the wedge? Anyway, the 1000L is definitely an option to consider.
 
Keep in mind the DCM’s 1000L, 2004L and also the HD1500 are Class D amps, I never had any experience with either but so many people seem to steer clear of class D amp’s (at least for our purposes) that I felt it worth mentioning.
brain21 said:
One complaint I've heard about the Atomics was that the active wedges were just not loud enough. I figured the 50w amp that comes in the powered version was properly matched, so I assume that you were running the DCM200L into that (passive, but @ 50 watts I mean, so using the 60 watt/chan mode of the DCM). Maybe the volume issue is just the wedge? Anyway, the 1000L is definitely an option to consider.
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I do find the Atomics a little restricting volume wise but for what I do no problems and I have 4 cabs, normally I play with 2 cabs but if I was in a situation I felt I needed more I would just break out the other two. Long story why I have 4, but I only purchased two. Ha ha ha. (No stealing or anything like that) BTW my hunt for a FRFR solution is still on I’m getting good results from the Atomic but I’m not going to swear by them either.

Would the DCM200L be enough to drive two different cabs at 60 watts aside 8 ohms could not really tell you without guessing? The thing about it, the rule seems to be when going solid state whatever you would consider healthy for a tube amp for the solid state go 3-5 x as much. At least on this forum Kind of makes sense once or twice I have pushed the DCM200 hard and the bass starts to fall apart but in an unflattering way compared to a tube amp pushed very hard. I guess the theory is, if the amp is not working hard (within it’s specs) it will stay neutral.

BTW I have run the DCM200L bridged mono into a Mesa 2x12 Recto, no problems there volume wise.
 
I have been using the ART SLA-2 for a little over 4 years now. I have pushed 412's, 112's and FR cabs other than having to EQ I haven't had any issues with ether type. As to it sounding dark I have compared it to 3 different QSC RMX series amps a Crown XLS 600 and heard only slight differences. I've heard bigger tonal differences when driving different FR cabs with the same amp vrs different amps driving the same cab... just some food for thought.
 
Had both the Crown XLS and the Rocktron V300. Wasn't impressed, returned both. If you're going SS, I would go 1000 watts min., or 100 watts min. for tube. The lower wattage SS will sound fine by themselves, but go head to head with a real tube amp, and you'll be wishing you'd gone for the higher output.
 
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Thomas-Hawk said:
6L6C... please keep us updated on this! Very interested in your opinion of the GT800FX compared to the Carvin.
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Will do Thomas

I was hoping to have unit this week but it does not look like that is going to happen, "hopefully next week".
But then again I said "hopefully next week" last week. But I'll let you know when I do get it.
 
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