Mac guys

Sixstring

Sixstring

Legend!
Hey guys, I know their are some super tech Mac people here on the forum and I have a question. I have an older iMac 24 EMC# 2134 mid 2007 and the HDD is on it's way out, it's making a buzzing noise. I don't have the coin to replace it with a new machine as I would like to so I'm trying to squeeze every last drop of life out of it.

I can get a Seagate Barracuda 1 TB 7200RPM STAT 600 and a 240 GB 2.5" SATA 6Gbps from Crucial for a total of $176 + ship which will be adequate but I was wondering if I should go with an SSD hybrid ? I found a 2TB SSD from ifixit $112 but unsure of the compatibility or reliability of the hardware they use. I have a question to them to be answered in regards to that.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated as I fall way short when it comes to computers.

Thanks.
 
My impression is that the hybrid drives are bad for audio. All that buffering is not ideal for streaming
 
It won't be worse than a regular hard drive. That said, these hybrid drives aren't that much better, really. I'm not sure there's space inside that iMac, but if there is, I'd go with a large "conventional" drive (maybe even 2.5" if there's no space for anything larger) + 128GB SSD, configured as a Fusion Drive. That'll give you SSD speed, and HD capacity. It works really well, the only wart is you'll have to run TRIM Enabler after each OS update to re-enable TRIM, otherwise SSD will get slow. Fortunately, you'll only need to do this 2-3 times a year, if that.
 
I put a hybrid drive in my 2009 Macbook and got a noticeable improvement in boot time (not that boot time is indicative of overall performance improvement but it's one measurement). As I understand it, hybrid drive software attempts to locate frequently used data in the solid state section of the drive - probably not likely to improve video / audio performance too much but maybe a little. I think if your going from a 5400 rpm to a 7200 rpm you'll notice an overall performance gain. Also make sure you've maxed the RAM capacity on the machine which will also ensure your getting the most out of it.

One thing I love about my MAC is the long life I'm getting out of it. Replacing the drive and maxing the RAM on my 09 macbook makes it just as performant as the newer ones.
 
Thanks for all the comments guys ;)

The recommended upgrades that Crucial offers for the machine I have are found here. I am maxed on RAM @ 4 Gigs I don't really have any programs that require a grip of RAM to use so it hasn't been a problem. I got an answer over at ifixit which was more of a question than an answer...

Copied from their site...
"You have a Internal HD Interface: Serial ATA (1.5 Gb/s) BUS. The drive you use will need to backward comparable from 6.0 Gb/s to 1.5 Gb/s. Checks the specs on the drive. Try a Google search like this, "backward compatable to 1.5 Gb/s SSD".


So at this point I'm still confused as to what I need or what will work.
 
plexi59 said:
It won't be worse than a regular hard drive. That said, these hybrid drives aren't that much better, really. I'm not sure there's space inside that iMac, but if there is, I'd go with a large "conventional" drive (maybe even 2.5" if there's no space for anything larger) + 128GB SSD, configured as a Fusion Drive. That'll give you SSD speed, and HD capacity. It works really well, the only wart is you'll have to run TRIM Enabler after each OS update to re-enable TRIM, otherwise SSD will get slow. Fortunately, you'll only need to do this 2-3 times a year, if that.
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What is TRIM enabler and is it a PITA to deal with? I'm currently running Mountain Lion with no real plans to move to Mavericks unless I have to for some reason. With the speed limitations of this machine I can't see dumping more than a few hundred dollars and if moving to an SSD requires more headache I will more than likely just put in the best HDD needed for the machine function.

I have 3 user accounts on the machine, don't know if that makes any difference or not. Based on what your saying it sounds like a fusion drive would be better than a hybrid ? And is the backwards compatibility issue going to be a problem?
 
Sixstring said:
What is TRIM enabler and is it a PITA to deal with? I'm currently running Mountain Lion with no real plans to move to Mavericks unless I have to for some reason. With the speed limitations of this machine I can't see dumping more than a few hundred dollars and if moving to an SSD requires more headache I will more than likely just put in the best HDD needed for the machine function.

I have 3 user accounts on the machine, don't know if that makes any difference or not. Based on what your saying it sounds like a fusion drive would be better than a hybrid ? And is the backwards compatibility issue going to be a problem?
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Trim enable makes sure that the cell in you SSD wear evenly. I have an iMac and MBP that both have SSD's I'd avoid hybrid drives as they have a tendency to fart out unexpectedly. Stick with a regular HD and backup your files to an external drive such as a time capsule periodically.
 
I would get a regular hd as well for an old computer you’re trying to squeeze another year or two out of. Also, have a look on eBay. You can usually quite a decent return on older Mac gear so upgrading to a new one (or maybe just a newer one) might not be out of the budget and thats just going to be better overall. Sometimes I’ve actually had better luck selling broken Mac’s (fully disclosed) than fully functional ones.
 
I *just* did this surgery on my mid-2007 iMac and in the end went with a server-quality 1 TB spinning disk drive to replace the dying internal drive. The heat inside these old iMacs is the worst for drive longevity and it doesn't help that the ducted cooling the have setup gets clogged with dust over time. While you've got it open I highly recommend spraying out the fans and ducts to keep the air moving. Given the age of the Mac I would stick with spinning disk technology. If you buy a server-grade drive so it can handle the heat -- I went with a WD Red 1 TB drive.

Be careful when you're in there. I had to take it apart a second time because I didn't get the internal mic re-attached correctly. Didn't notice that until we tried to FaceTime with the 'rents one weekend. It's not impossible surgery, but you do need some patience and time to do it.
 
iaresee said:
I *just* did this surgery on my mid-2007 iMac and in the end went with a server-quality 1 TB spinning disk drive to replace the dying internal drive. The heat inside these old iMacs is the worst for drive longevity and it doesn't help that the ducted cooling the have setup gets clogged with dust over time. While you've got it open I highly recommend spraying out the fans and ducts to keep the air moving. Given the age of the Mac I would stick with spinning disk technology. If you buy a server-grade drive so it can handle the heat -- I went with a WD Red 1 TB drive.

Be careful when you're in there. I had to take it apart a second time because I didn't get the internal mic re-attached correctly. Didn't notice that until we tried to FaceTime with the 'rents one weekend. It's not impossible surgery, but you do need some patience and time to do it.
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Very cool... thanks for the heads up, I had the machine apart yesterday and did blow it out completely as it was chocked with a lot of dust. I didn't really have any issues pulling it apart as it was a fairly simple task. I am going to have to take to someone to ghost the drive over as I don't have a copy of the OS. I downloaded it off the net. Also is there any issue with moving to a larger 2-3 TB drive? It looks like I can get a 3TB Red for $120 not that I need it as I don't have a tone of files on my machine. I have only used 260 Gigs of a 500 gig drive.
 
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iaresee said:
I *just* did this surgery on my mid-2007 iMac and in the end went with a server-quality 1 TB spinning disk drive to replace the dying internal drive. The heat inside these old iMacs is the worst for drive longevity and it doesn't help that the ducted cooling the have setup gets clogged with dust over time. While you've got it open I highly recommend spraying out the fans and ducts to keep the air moving. Given the age of the Mac I would stick with spinning disk technology. If you buy a server-grade drive so it can handle the heat -- I went with a WD Red 1 TB drive.

Be careful when you're in there. I had to take it apart a second time because I didn't get the internal mic re-attached correctly. Didn't notice that until we tried to FaceTime with the 'rents one weekend. It's not impossible surgery, but you do need some patience and time to do it.
Click to expand...

If he has the dough, I'd go with SSD. It'll literally add another couple of years to the life of the computer, for not that much cash. I'd also max out the RAM while it's disassembled.

Also, regarding WD Red, these drives are designed for NAS. This means that they are intended to be used as a part of a RAID array. That's because instead of trying to repair the damage like a "regular" desktop drive would (by re-allocating the hard to read but recoverable sectors elsewhere), NAS drives will just suddenly crap out and tell the array that they're no longer operational. This is preferable in an array because storage is already redundant there, and no data is lost. The sooner you notice your drive has gone south, the sooner you replace it. I would not use a NAS-specific drive as the only drive in the system.

And finally, regarding heat, most drives (enterprise or not) have a rated temperature of 55 degrees celsius. This means they can spend their entire lifetime at or near this temperature and they will be "in spec" for reliability. Apple's philosophy is to not provide more cooling than the component actually needs. They do the same with CPUs, letting them go up pretty high and then gradually spinning up the fans (a hot heatsink has much better heat dissipation due to higher temperature differential). The reason is simple, those components are designed and tested for their particular operating temperatures, it's utterly pointless to cool them to room temperature - you will just create noise and you won't win anything reliability-wise.
 
FWIW, I had a top of the line Mini (most current model) with the Fusion (hybrid) drive and I had no problems whatsoever. I didn't experience a single problem and audio was pretty much all I did with that comp (it's what I do for work and recreation). More, the thing booted in like 15 seconds. Never seen anything like it. I'd totally recommend it. I have a SSD in my Mac Pro (see sig) and the boot is much slower, but that's for other reasons.
 
plexi59 said:
If he has the dough, I'd go with SSD. It'll literally add another couple of years to the life of the computer, for not that much cash. I'd also max out the RAM while it's disassembled.
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Point of note: you don't need to remove the screen on an mid-2007 to upgrade the RAM. It's user-accessible via a panel on the bottom of the unit.

Also, regarding WD Red, these drives are designed for NAS. This means that they are intended to be used as a part of a RAID array. That's because instead of trying to repair the damage like a "regular" desktop drive would (by re-allocating the hard to read but recoverable sectors elsewhere), NAS drives will just suddenly crap out and tell the array that they're no longer operational.
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This is not completely true. The Reds run a different firmware than the Green drives that keeps them from spinning down so aggressively and have better control over spin rate. They also get a better warranty, something that comes about from better part binning. The Red drive firmware supports time-limited error recovery but it kicks in in the multiple second range and shouldn't be a problem in a single drive setup. If your sectors are that damaged you're fucked any way. :)

And finally, regarding heat, most drives (enterprise or not) have a rated temperature of 55 degrees celsius. This means they can spend their entire lifetime at or near this temperature and they will be "in spec" for reliability. Apple's philosophy is to not provide more cooling than the component actually needs. They do the same with CPUs, letting them go up pretty high and then gradually spinning up the fans (a hot heatsink has much better heat dissipation due to higher temperature differential). The reason is simple, those components are designed and tested for their particular operating temperatures, it's utterly pointless to cool them to room temperature - you will just create noise and you won't win anything reliability-wise.
Click to expand...

The problem with the old 2007 iMacs is they didn't provide enough cooling period for the drives. My drive thermo sensor will read will in the 80ºC range with only moderate use and Apple's on-board fan control won't push the fans high enough to reduce that temperature. I can only guess at why Apple did this but I suppose it would be to keep the ambient noise from the fans at whisper levels. Unfortunately, as you point out, that's bad for drive longevity. You have to resort to things like smcFanControl to get the temperature down in these boxes.

Brock said:
FWIW, I had a top of the line Mini (most current model) with the Fusion (hybrid) drive and I had no problems whatsoever. I didn't experience a single problem and audio was pretty much all I did with that comp (it's what I do for work and recreation). More, the thing booted in like 15 seconds. Never seen anything like it. I'd totally recommend it. I have a SSD in my Mac Pro (see sig) and the boot is much slower, but that's for other reasons.
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This is an interesting data point. Were you running a Fusion drive (two drives, one SSD one spinning disk, displayed as one drive and managed by OS X)? Or were you running a hybrid SSD+Spinning disk drive where it's all in one drive enclosure? The mid-2007 iMac won't allow for an SSD in the SuperBay area because it used Ultra-ATA for the connection. It's a real pity. :(
 
iaresee said:
This is an interesting data point. Were you running a Fusion drive (two drives, one SSD one spinning disk, displayed as one drive and managed by OS X)? Or were you running a hybrid SSD+Spinning disk drive where it's all in one drive enclosure? The mid-2007 iMac won't allow for an SSD in the SuperBay area because it used Ultra-ATA for the connection. It's a real pity. :(
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I used the Fusion Drive Apple made an option for that computer (see Apple - Mac mini - Features and Mac mini (Late 2012), iMac (Late 2012 and later): About Fusion Drive). I bought it thinking it was the best of both worlds - SSD speeds with huge (1TB) capacity. It was well after I'd had the computer for a while I started reading about people saying the Fusion Drives were no good for audio. Theoretically I can understand how they might not be great for audio, but in application, my experience was nothing but positive with it. Its dynamic allocation process seemed to be right on.

The Mini itself was just mind-boggling. I had like 12 USB things connected to it (had to use hubs). Ran dual (23") displays as full HD resolution. Firewire. It ran like a champ. It's only weakness, and the reason I changed computers, was the graphics. While, for the most part (like 90% of the time), the computer ran dual HD displays flawlessly or close to it, it was more than the computer was made to do. Rendering times for graphic-related things took a while and sometimes video playback would be glitchy.
 
Brock said:
I used the Fusion Drive Apple made an option for that computer (see Apple - Mac mini - Features and Mac mini (Late 2012), iMac (Late 2012 and later): About Fusion Drive). I bought it thinking it was the best of both worlds - SSD speeds with huge (1TB) capacity. It was well after I'd had the computer for a while I started reading about people saying the Fusion Drives were no good for audio. Theoretically I can understand how they might not be great for audio, but in application, my experience was nothing but positive with it. Its dynamic allocation process seemed to be right on.
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This is awesome to know. I've got multiple MBPros with DIY Fusion drives in them here but none are used for audio recording -- largely because of the rumours about huge latency when the OS shifts things from SSD to spinning disk behind the scenes. I've always wondered if it was more fear-mongering than reality. I was all set to get a tricked out rMBPro 13" for my new recording machine this fall, to replace my aging iMac, but maybe I'll look harder at the Mini. I don't necessarily need the portability of the rMBPro.
 
I would argue the Mini is just as portable... ;) (I know, I know...it doesn't have the monitor and peripherals, but if you have those where you're going, you're set.)

If you get the Mini, I highly recommend getting the i7 QUAD processor and maxing out the RAM (16GB) if you're using it for music.
 
Is the mini ever going to get a refresh/update? It is kinda due - I hope Apple haven't decided to abandon it.
 
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