....Louder.

I

Ice Giant Sr.

Member
Love my 2 CLR's....but.....I need more volume at practice. In a Doom project (the Rockerverb 4-ch preset is perfect...Thanks by the way). I don't want to add 2 more.

I'd rather go power amp into 2-4x12 route. Thinking Engl 840/100 or , God is it worth it?, an Electric Amps Power Unit. Not set on stereo either.

Advice, thoughts, no bashing please.
 
Ice Giant Sr. said:
Love my 2 CLR's....but.....I need more volume at practice.
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Sounds like what you really need is LESS volume at practice. From everyone else.

I can't even imagine needing more volume than what my 2 CLR's provide. Right now, at practice, I have the volume up at halfway on the wedges, and about 10:00 on the Axe's Output 2 knob. With output at 12:00, they are deafening and everyone else in the band would kick me out. And that's with the wedges themselves at half volume.

Maybe you need to look at your gain staging?
 
It's not sexy looking, but you can pick up a cheap pair of PA speaker tripods and elevate the CRLs to face level. That should allow you to hear yourself better. If that doesn't do it, then....??? IDK.

OTOH, if what you are missing is more the pushing of air and overall low end that you get from 4x12 cabinets via a strong tube amp, then IMHO there is no way a pair of CLRs can compete with that alone, other than, perhaps, adding a powered subwoofer to your CLR rig. I'm a bassist, so I sympathize with running out of headroom in the lower frequency region. Adding a subwoofer cured that for me when I need it, and it's still smaller and lighter weight than a tube amp and one or two 4x12 cabs.

You might think it's a crazy idea, but apparently there are guitarists who do this and really like it. I could understand why, especially if you got one of these from ISP Technologies:

ISP Technologies Vector SL Steve Lukather 600W Active Guitar Subwoofer | Musician's Friend
 
Ice Giant Sr. said:
Advice, thoughts, no bashing please.
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Advice first:
If you can stay with the existing speakers, elevate one as mentioned and leave the other coupled with the floor. If not, and you want to switch or augment with cabs, maybe 2 2x12's(NL) from Matrix will work and save on the weight. They say they sound like 4x12's but I haven't heard them in person.

Question second:
Wait... what? I have 2 CLR's and if you need more volume, are you at least wearing ear protection? Early on I was in testing mode and stacked them with only the top one on. I had some full range material with heavy guitar playing and accidentally bumped a fader that was only a few feet from the speaker. I had backed up already and the speaker was rattling my skull - literally. I had a quick debate whether it was actually safe to walk back and adjust the fader... I waited for a lull and my head thanked me. This was in a ~75x75 room with damped ceiling and floor but hard walls.
 
My first instinct isn't you need more volume, but rather you need to EQ your sound to stick out in the mix more.

You say you're playing doom core type heavy music which tells me you probably have WAY too much low end and no midrange. Band starts playing at loud volume, and you vanish. You turn your CLRS up to max but STILL can't really hear yourself even though you are damaging your ears.

With that said. Get a 1000w PA power amp and a pair of JBL passive PA speakers and put them behind you. More volume.
 
I imagine the usual more-mid-thingy would do it, as others mentioned. I remember when i got my JSX. 120 watt of tubes could vanish... Active eq was fun for sure. Beautiful mids in that amp.

But of course. The correct gain staging would do magic if it's not set up correctly.
 
1, Put the CLRs on poles!

(and direct them towards the drummer! He will play quieter!)

PS: His ignorance will make you deaf, but at least his feelings will be ok!
 
I'm pretty much with the others.

If 2 CLR's are not loud enough, then I'd invest in Plexi-walls for the drummer and hone your on-stage sound so you don't have to ride the tinnitus train.

And if you're AMP block levels aren't at 0.00, and it's at the edge of clipping, you might have more room there.

R
 
+1 on the eq to stand out in a mix. Ask any bass player...And if EQ doesn't work, elevate your speakers. If that's no good get IEMs to save you ears and actually be able to hear yourself...If that's no good everyone has to turn down as a CLR will do 130dB which is stupid loud. If your band can play quitter then you will notice a MASSIVE difference in the clarity and tones. Fletcher Fuckin Munsen shit right here
 
I have two CLR's and can confirm they are loud when I want them to be. I have always tried to set stage volumes where you could talk/ not scream to the one next to you. This makes the dynamics and the monitors work as they are intended to work. Let the mains do the loud stuff. Im sure that there are plenty here that have been on stage more than I have, but if you can get the others to go along you won't believe how much your stage dynamics and awareness improve. I'll never forget our drummer who would just come out of the woodwork on the turnarounds and chorus/bridge, and then slide back down volume wise into the songs groove. Amazing stuff when you have one that understands this and then practices it too... :mrgreen
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I know they can. And to my surprise, I found that they can handle an incredible amount of low end. Far more than a 412.

I suspect this is an EQ and/or gain staging problem.
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Got to be this.
I rehearsed last week with an RCF nx12 and a CLR. Both at chest level.
My original band is a obnoxious with the volume, and the drummer is crushing.
Other guitar player has a recto half stack on 11.
I had no problem keeping up with my two speakers. And it sounded bad ass.
 
I just have to share this, just because you might not know:
decibel_exposure_chart.gif


This table shows the maximum exposure time of sound pressure levels at which temporary and/or permanent hearing damage can occur.
 
Ice Giant Sr. said:
Love my 2 CLR's....but.....I need more volume at practice. In a Doom project (the Rockerverb 4-ch preset is perfect...Thanks by the way).
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with that preset but if it does not have a low cut somewhere after the amp block you might try adding one.

Low frequencies eat power amplifier headroom. If there are any sub lows that are not really needed you should get some more volume by filtering them out.

You can do it in the cab block or by adding a filter block. You could start at 30Hz and go higher step by step until it starts to eat into the lows that are actually hearable and useful.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I suspect this is an EQ and/or gain staging problem.
Click to expand...
^^^ This.

If two CLRs aren't loud enough, your EQ is the problem. Playing doom, the temptation is to scoop the hell out of your tone. Sounds wicked by itself—gets swallowed up in the mix.

Try this experiment: put a filter block at the end of your chain. Set it to peaking mode, gain at 5 dB, frequency at around 800 Hz, Q around 0.4. While you're playing with the band, take the filter in and out of bypass. See how much better you cut through, and how much more beef you add to the mix.
 
Gentlemen, thank you for your massive replies and input. Yes they are mounted on stands. Yes I am wearing ear protection. I don't scoop out the mids, my sound is more rock than thrash. I'll post the patch when I get home and maybe someone can see where my issue truly lies. I have the CLR's at noon for both channel 1 and master volume. The AF2 is at 11:00-noonish. I've driven the cabs into the red. So in fear of blowing 'em up I turn down.I back off and it gets a little lost. I can swear that the cabs dampen the volume if it's too loud. Live it was great. Guitar 2 and bass were spread out and ran a D.I. from my out 1 to FOH. Lots of people at the show said the tone was incredible (naturally....Axe-Fx) and said it cut through everything else. So live no issue, practice is an issue. Jimfist! Thanks for the heads up on the iSP subwoofer. That might be my weapon of choice.
 
Just so y'all know what I'm up against. Bass - Sunn Concert into Emperor 2x15 and Sunn 1x15 2x10, Guitar 2 - Sunn Model T into 2 Emperor 4x12. There is a LOT of low end in our 10x15 room. Drummer is as loud as a quarry being blown up with dynamite.
 
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