Locking tuners on Ibanez Jem.

J

John Atanasoff

Inspired
I'm reluctant to install Evertune because of the bending and feel issues.
So for the most stable tuning on my Ibanez Jem with "Lo Pro Edge", i'm thinking to install "Planet Waves Auto-Trim Tuning Machines" which are direct mounted, so no need to drill!

Even the Auto-Trim feature is a huge turn on to replace my current tuning machines, without having the string leftover to sting me.

Are this the best precision locking tuners?

I am blocking the trem! This should get the tuning quite stable right? Additionaly the fine tuners will get it right on the spot!

@unix-guy will def appreciate your insight here, as you got loads of ibanez guitars.
 
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John Atanasoff said:
I'm reluctant to install Evertune because of the bending and feel issues.
So for the most stable tuning on my Ibanez Jem i'm thinking to install locking tuners.

I am blocking the trem! This should get the tuning stable right? Additionaly the fine tuners will get it right on the spot!

@unix-guy will def appreciate your insight here, as you got loads of ibanez guitars.
Click to expand...
Funny... I was about to reply and then saw the tag :)

From my perspective, a guitar with a properly setup double locking Floyd Rose type bridge would never warrant locking tuners. The Ibanez Edge trem is probably the best designed FR bridge, IMO.

Assuming properly stretched strings, there are a few places where the guitar could go out of tune with the nut locked:

  • Slipping saddles
  • Shifting bridge studs
  • Shifting locking nut
  • Improperly installed lock clamps
  • Damaged/dirty knife edges
Since you have a locking nut and fine tuners, use them even if your trem is blocked.

Saddles slip typically only if the saddle screw is not properly tightened. Usually after adjusting intonation.

Bridge studs can shift if the threads are sloppy (older ibanez guitars have locking studs - yours might) or if the inserts have worn the holes they are inserted into (which would require repair).

The locking nut can shift if the bolts attaching it to the neck loose. This can happen over time. Make sure they are tight but don't over do it... That can cause the neck to crack.

The locking clamps should be installed so that the bottom of the clamp follows the curve of the nut. Best checked without the strings in place.

If you are blocking the trem, you don't really have to worry about the knife edges since the position should not change.

I have had times where a string broke between the nut and the tuner with the nut locked, and I played the guitar for several weeks with no issues...
 
The locking tuners are a bonus they make string changes way faster, I have them for my Fenders. (Fender locking tuners BTW)

But if you are having tuning issues with a Jem you might want to check the knife blades on the trem, if they are worn that is most likely your tuning problems.

John
 
My jem has a bit of instability. It's because the knife edges are worn. I've filed them a couple times and it maybe helped a bit. Keeping the truss rod perfectly adjusted seems to help.
 
There's no point in owning a Jem if you are going to block the trem.
If you don't like trems get a les paul, a hard tail strat, or a tele.
Even a Squire strat can stay in tune as well as a double locking Floyd. Even when you abuse it like vai! The secret is lubing all moving parts and the nut with a drop of bicycle chain oil! Here's proof...

example

 
Yeah I know, that's why I showed him the video and told him about the bike oil, that squire don't even have locking tuners, and that's as much abuse as you can give any guitar no matter how hard you try and yet it's still in tune. I'm just saying you don't have to have locking tuners to stay in tune without the locking nut clamped down. Just a drop of bike chain oil. Also there is a Steve Vai Jem that was made and sold as a hardtail, I forget the exact model name but I'm sure it could be found in a google search.
 
Locking nut+blocking+fine tuners= no need for locking tuners
I think they made a hardtail jem for a short short time- no one wants them so you could probably buy one for nothing used

Also- I'd choose a locking nut over locking tuners any time- I have a hard tail ibanez with a floyd neck on it that I lock- it's great
If you do things right you don't even need the fine tuners
 
@unix-guy gave a lot of useful information in a small space.

Personally, I'm not big on the auto-trim feature. If you ever have to undo the lock for any reason, you'll pretty much have to install a new string, because you'll never get the string mounted back to the tuner. I like to leave just a little nub to work with.
 
brokeguitar said:
Yeah I know, that's why I showed him the video and told him about the bike oil, that squire don't even have locking tuners, and that's as much abuse as you can give any guitar no matter how hard you try and yet it's still in tune. I'm just saying you don't have to have locking tuners to stay in tune without the locking nut clamped down. Just a drop of bike chain oil. Also there is a Steve Vai Jem that was made and sold as a hardtail, I forget the exact model name but I'm sure it could be found in a google search.
Click to expand...
Unless bike chain oil has some special properties, I would not use it on my guitar. Oils tend to collect dirt and gum up, especially when they get cold.

I've heard that Chapstick actually works well... But I've never had a need for any of that with my guitars. Proper setup is key.
 
Also to the OP.... I don't think you can actually install the Evertune system on guitars with tremolo bars. All the ESPs I've seen with it were hard tails. Which is kinda redundant because most hard tails don't have tuning issues, at least none that locking tuners wouldn't fix. A bad nut though is what causes most tuning issues. Best thing about locking tuners is you just put the string straight in, you don't have to wrap the string any, that alone is the main reason I love locking tuners. Wrapping the string around the post wrong or too many times will make tuning unstable.
 
unix-guy said:
Funny... I was about to reply and then saw the tag :)

From my perspective, a guitar with a properly setup double locking Floyd Rose type bridge would never warrant locking tuners. The Ibanez Edge trem is probably the best designed FR bridge, IMO.

Assuming properly stretched strings, there are a few places where the guitar could go out of tune with the nut locked:

  • Slipping saddles
  • Shifting bridge studs
  • Shifting locking nut
  • Improperly installed lock clamps
  • Damaged/dirty knife edges
Since you have a locking nut and fine tuners, use them even if your trem is blocked.

Saddles slip typically only if the saddle screw is not properly tightened. Usually after adjusting intonation.

Bridge studs can shift if the threads are sloppy (older ibanez guitars have locking studs - yours might) or if the inserts have worn the holes they are inserted into (which would require repair).

The locking nut can shift if the bolts attaching it to the neck loose. This can happen over time. Make sure they are tight but don't over do it... That can cause the neck to crack.

The locking clamps should be installed so that the bottom of the clamp follows the curve of the nut. Best checked without the strings in place.

If you are blocking the trem, you don't really have to worry about the knife edges since the position should not change.

I have had times where a string broke between the nut and the tuner with the nut locked, and I played the guitar for several weeks with no issues...
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot! Very well detailed, to the point info!
I am decided to block the trem otherwise would follow your steps religiously!

Let's not forget necks are also to blame, specially thin necks. They are just unstable!

Actually as has been mentioned already in the later posts and I discussed it with a luthier today, the trim feature on daddario tuners remove the possibility of using same string when it breaks close to the saddle streching or bending, which can happen on B and E.
But is it not the same with every locking tuner? I mean they leave almost no string left so it does not matter if its daddario or another brand correct?

unix-guy said:
Well... That's a matter of opinion.

Perhaps he likes the way the neck feels, or how the pickups sound, etc.
Click to expand...

Reason num 1: On a floating system when you hit LOW E and bend High E, LOW E gets out of tune. That's its nature and i don't like it. It removes some playbility and tricks i like to do.

Reason num 2: Tuning stability!
Getting the trem returning with accuracy really well, is a pain in the ass! Too much work! You can't go over 10-46 gauge!
Yes parts might be faulty, i am certainly to blame, but still; I'm done with floating trems! I prefer fixed and if i ever have one will be a very simple trem like on a good quality PRS.


Jeries said:
Locking nut+blocking+fine tuners= no need for locking tuners
I think they made a hardtail jem for a short short time- no one wants them so you could probably buy one for nothing used

Also- I'd choose a locking nut over locking tuners any time- I have a hard tail ibanez with a floyd neck on it that I lock- it's great
If you do things right you don't even need the fine tuners
Click to expand...

Humm, feel wise apart; simply blocking the trem is the best and wisest scenario; for me! This way it will be really stable and you still have the fine tuners for accurate tuning; and you never know if you'l need them ;)

Rex said:
@unix-guy gave a lot of useful information in a small space.

Personally, I'm not big on the auto-trim feature. If you ever have to undo the lock for any reason, you'll pretty much have to install a new string, because you'll never get the string mounted back to the tuner. I like to leave just a little nub to work with.
Click to expand...

And what would that reason be? Didn't the engineers think about it?
 
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brokeguitar said:
There's no point in owning a Jem if you are going to block the trem.
If you don't like trems get a les paul, a hard tail strat, or a tele.
Even a Squire strat can stay in tune as well as a double locking Floyd. Even when you abuse it like vai! The secret is lubing all moving parts and the nut with a drop of bicycle chain oil! Here's proof...

example

Click to expand...


Loved the video haha. That was some serious beating!
Still for him to get the guitar like that took him quite a while to adjust i think. When he changes strings and removes all the old ones to clean the neck, he will have to repeat same process! Lets not forget, the cheap trem on his guitar wears out quite fast and don't know how easy it is to install new one; even if done by a luthier? Too much math. Screw trems!
 
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I have zero issues with bend or feel on the Evertune. You would lose the trem function but setup is stellar. On the Jem I had for a brief time I encountered all the issues you mention. You might consider the Tremel-No system if you think you might use trem once in a while.
 
mwd said:
I have zero issues with bend or feel on the Evertune. You would lose the trem function but setup is stellar. On the Jem I had for a brief time I encountered all the issues you mention. You might consider the Tremel-No system if you think you might use trem once in a while.
Click to expand...

I have tremol-no installed. Not good enough!
I 'm done with tricky and complicated setups! That's why i quit on evertune!
 
Evertune is neither tricky or complicated John. It's just different. Once understood I have never seen intonation/action setups that were easier or more accurate.
 
mwd said:
Evertune is neither tricky or complicated John. It's just different. Once understood I have never seen intonation/action setups that were easier or more accurate.
Click to expand...

Say you remove all the old strings and change them with same gauge; and you are already familiar with evertune!
How long does it take you to get it setup perfect; to play like a regular fixed bridge guitar does and not go out of tune; unless you throw it against the floor!
 
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